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chateauferret 31 Dec 17 7.32pm
Originally posted by Willo Clearly in the "Anti-Willo" camp. We all form opinions about people and not everyone is everyone's "Cup of tea". Going back to the penalty, all I was doing was looking at it from Mike Dean's standpoint. Well he doesn't move his hand towards the ball, does he? The ball is going away from him until the forward kicks it and then it strikes him on the forearm, which is in front of his torso now, almost immediately. Only you, Willo, could pretend that there's a standpoint from which that even resembles a penalty. A totally incompetent decision and one for which the ref derserves the universal condemnation he has received. And another matchday distorted by s*** officials. Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.32pm) ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

31 Dec 17 7.32pm

Originally posted by Willo

Clearly in the "Anti-Willo" camp.
We all form opinions about people and not everyone is everyone's "Cup of tea".

Going back to the penalty, all I was doing was looking at it from Mike Dean's standpoint.

Well he doesn't move his hand towards the ball, does he? The ball is going away from him until the forward kicks it and then it strikes him on the forearm, which is in front of his torso now, almost immediately.

Only you, Willo, could pretend that there's a standpoint from which that even resembles a penalty. A totally incompetent decision and one for which the ref derserves the universal condemnation he has received.

And another matchday distorted by s*** officials.

Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.32pm)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 7.37pm
Originally posted by YT If Dean believed it to be deliberate handball, then why didn’t he also award a yellow card to Chambers? I thought that was the ‘law’ these days. I refer to a FIFA document : Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required."
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 7.37pm

Originally posted by YT

If Dean believed it to be deliberate handball, then why didn’t he also award a yellow card to Chambers? I thought that was the ‘law’ these days.

I refer to a FIFA document :

Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials".

It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area.

"A caution or dismissal is not normally required."

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 7.39pm
Originally posted by chateauferret Well he doesn't move his hand towards the ball, does he? The ball is going away from him until the forward kicks it and then it strikes him on the forearm, which is in front of his torso now, almost immediately. Only you, Willo, could pretend that there's a standpoint from which that even resembles a penalty. A totally incompetent decision and one for which the ref derserves the universal condemnation he has received. And another matchday distorted by s*** officials. Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.32pm) Have a look at the TV footage and Mike Dean's position on the field of play.He would have seen what we saw on the TV.He has awarded the penalty because of the hand movement. Anyhow, I'm not acting as Mike Dean's 'Defence Lawyer' on here. Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 7.40pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 7.39pm

Originally posted by chateauferret

And another matchday distorted by s*** officials.

Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.32pm)

Have a look at the TV footage and Mike Dean's position on the field of play.He would have seen what we saw on the TV.He has awarded the penalty because of the hand movement.

Anyhow, I'm not acting as Mike Dean's 'Defence Lawyer' on here.

Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 7.40pm)

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chateauferret 31 Dec 17 7.48pm
Originally posted by Willo Have a look at the TV footage and Mike Dean's position on the field of play.He would have seen what we saw on the TV.He has awarded the penalty because of the hand movement. Anyhow, I'm not acting as Mike Dean's 'Defence Lawyer' on here. Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 7.40pm) Have a look at a) the direction of the ball's flight before it was kicked; b) the direction of the ball's flight after it was kicked and c) the distance between the two players and the time taken from being kicked to striking the defender on the arm. You do the math, Willo. Clue: if it doesn't hit him on the arm it hits him in the midriff. As for the ref's position on the field there are three observations: a) if the ref is in the wrong place, that's his mistake; b) if the ref doesn't see clearly that it's a penalty, it's not a penalty and c) no matter where he is he can see that the players are right next to each other. Oh, and there are these people called "assistant referees" as well. Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.50pm) ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

31 Dec 17 7.48pm

Originally posted by Willo

Have a look at the TV footage and Mike Dean's position on the field of play.He would have seen what we saw on the TV.He has awarded the penalty because of the hand movement.

Anyhow, I'm not acting as Mike Dean's 'Defence Lawyer' on here.

Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 7.40pm)

Have a look at a) the direction of the ball's flight before it was kicked; b) the direction of the ball's flight after it was kicked and c) the distance between the two players and the time taken from being kicked to striking the defender on the arm.

You do the math, Willo.

Clue: if it doesn't hit him on the arm it hits him in the midriff.

As for the ref's position on the field there are three observations: a) if the ref is in the wrong place, that's his mistake; b) if the ref doesn't see clearly that it's a penalty, it's not a penalty and c) no matter where he is he can see that the players are right next to each other.

Oh, and there are these people called "assistant referees" as well.

Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.50pm)

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YT Oxford 31 Dec 17 7.48pm
Originally posted by Willo I refer to a FIFA document : Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials". It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area. "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." I stand corrected then. I’d be interested to know why the word ‘normally’ is used. It suggests to me that FIFA believes there to be varying degrees of ‘deliberateness’ in a handball. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 31 Dec 17 7.48pm

Originally posted by Willo

I refer to a FIFA document :

Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials".

It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area.

"A caution or dismissal is not normally required."

I stand corrected then. I’d be interested to know why the word ‘normally’ is used. It suggests to me that FIFA believes there to be varying degrees of ‘deliberateness’ in a handball.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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chateauferret 31 Dec 17 7.51pm
Originally posted by YT I stand corrected then. I’d be interested to know why the word ‘normally’ is used. It suggests to me that FIFA believes there to be varying degrees of ‘deliberateness’ in a handball. It's still a red card if it's DOGSO and it's still a yellow card if it's unsporting behaviour. Maradona's Hand of God goal, correctly officiated today, would have been handball and also unsporting behaviour so a yellow card. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

31 Dec 17 7.51pm

Originally posted by YT

I stand corrected then. I’d be interested to know why the word ‘normally’ is used. It suggests to me that FIFA believes there to be varying degrees of ‘deliberateness’ in a handball.

It's still a red card if it's DOGSO and it's still a yellow card if it's unsporting behaviour. Maradona's Hand of God goal, correctly officiated today, would have been handball and also unsporting behaviour so a yellow card.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 31 Dec 17 7.56pm
another crappy referee decision gives palace a kick in the head. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 31 Dec 17 7.56pm

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another crappy referee decision gives palace a kick in the head.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 8.11pm
Originally posted by chateauferret Have a look at a) the direction of the ball's flight before it was kicked; b) the direction of the ball's flight after it was kicked and c) the distance between the two players and the time taken from being kicked to striking the defender on the arm. You do the math, Willo. Clue: if it doesn't hit him on the arm it hits him in the midriff. As for the ref's position on the field there are three observations: a) if the ref is in the wrong place, that's his mistake; b) if the ref doesn't see clearly that it's a penalty, it's not a penalty and c) no matter where he is he can see that the players are right next to each other. Oh, and there are these people called "assistant referees" as well. Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.50pm) Mike Dean was in a good position and his view was unimpeded.It appears he is saying to Wenger "I am sure" regarding his decision.From his viewing position the left arm moved towards the ball and made contact with it.If Chambers' hand was down by his side, never moved and the ball was struck against it, I am sure no penalty would have been awarded.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 8.11pm

Originally posted by chateauferret

You do the math, Willo.

Clue: if it doesn't hit him on the arm it hits him in the midriff.

Oh, and there are these people called "assistant referees" as well.

Edited by chateauferret (31 Dec 2017 7.50pm)

Mike Dean was in a good position and his view was unimpeded.It appears he is saying to Wenger "I am sure" regarding his decision.From his viewing position the left arm moved towards the ball and made contact with it.If Chambers' hand was down by his side, never moved and the ball was struck against it, I am sure no penalty would have been awarded.

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chateauferret 31 Dec 17 9.17pm
Originally posted by Willo Mike Dean was in a good position and his view was unimpeded.It appears he is saying to Wenger "I am sure" regarding his decision.From his viewing position the left arm moved towards the ball and made contact with it.If Chambers' hand was down by his side, never moved and the ball was struck against it, I am sure no penalty would have been awarded. Argumentum ad ignorantium. The players were about a foot apart. That fact renders any other consideration irrelevant. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

31 Dec 17 9.17pm

Originally posted by Willo

Argumentum ad ignorantium. The players were about a foot apart. That fact renders any other consideration irrelevant.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 9.41pm
Originally posted by chateauferret Argumentum ad ignorantium. The players were about a foot apart. That fact renders any other consideration irrelevant. Distance is irrelevant if the referee deems that an arm has moved towards the ball intentionally and made contact with it.Dean obviously felt Chambers extended his hand purposely in order to make contact with the ball. Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.45pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 9.41pm

Originally posted by chateauferret

Argumentum ad ignorantium. The players were about a foot apart. That fact renders any other consideration irrelevant.

Distance is irrelevant if the referee deems that an arm has moved towards the ball intentionally and made contact with it.Dean obviously felt Chambers extended his hand purposely in order to make contact with the ball.

Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.45pm)

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chateauferret 31 Dec 17 9.46pm
Originally posted by Willo Distance is irrelevant if the referee deems that an arm has moved towards the ball intentionally and made contact with it. Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.42pm) FFS. The ball was kicked at his arm from a distance of about a foot, for Pete's sake. Until it was kicked it wasn't going anywhere near the defender at all. So that's bollocks. HTH. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

31 Dec 17 9.46pm

Originally posted by Willo

Distance is irrelevant if the referee deems that an arm has moved towards the ball intentionally and made contact with it.

Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.42pm)

FFS.

The ball was kicked at his arm from a distance of about a foot, for Pete's sake. Until it was kicked it wasn't going anywhere near the defender at all.

So that's bollocks.

HTH.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 9.49pm
Originally posted by chateauferret FFS. The ball was kicked at his arm from a distance of about a foot, for Pete's sake. Until it was kicked it wasn't going anywhere near the defender at all. So that's bollocks. HTH. Dean was in a good position to judge the distance between the players.As far as was concerned Chambers extended his arm to make contact with the ball. One can debate this decision until the "Cows come home".At the end of the day Dean made a decision in real-time and only he will know for certain on what basis he awarded the penalty.Dermot Gallagher having seen it on TV (And probably numerous replays) felt it was the wrong decision. Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.51pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Dec 17 9.49pm

Originally posted by chateauferret

FFS.

The ball was kicked at his arm from a distance of about a foot, for Pete's sake. Until it was kicked it wasn't going anywhere near the defender at all.

So that's bollocks.

HTH.

Dean was in a good position to judge the distance between the players.As far as was concerned Chambers extended his arm to make contact with the ball.

One can debate this decision until the "Cows come home".At the end of the day Dean made a decision in real-time and only he will know for certain on what basis he awarded the penalty.Dermot Gallagher having seen it on TV (And probably numerous replays) felt it was the wrong decision.

Edited by Willo (31 Dec 2017 9.51pm)

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