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Stirlingsays 26 Dec 17 9.53am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Israel is a legal country. The occupied territories are not a legal part of it though the state behaves as if they are. Be like France taking over Sussex and Kent and expecting us to grin and bear it. I have sympathy for your argument outside of the creation of Israel and the land it won in subsequent wars. The problem is though is that if someone is going to state to me that it's ok to kill an Israeli then I'm not going to tell the Israelis that they can't kill in return. It like those b******s saying that it was ok for the IRA to murder my half brother when he was in the army on his two tours of Ireland. I don't see violence as being anything like an effective response to the Jews building on that land....indeed it gives them cover. Having said that, I didn't agree with the fairness of the creation of Israel.....however, once it was created and filled with millions of Jews they had a right to also defend themselves. I have a shoulder shrug attitude towards the wars that happened afterwards.....if the Arabs had won back that land then the bloodbath that would have followed would have been terrible but....it's what happens, as in India when pakistan was created. However, Israel won those wars.....I would have liked a two state solution....but the extremists on both sides ensured that was never going to happen. I view the whole thing as a tragedy for one set of people and victory for another......It's not fair, however I'm not sure what would be at this point either.
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Stirlingsays 26 Dec 17 9.56am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Tbf since its birth the governments of Israel have committed many terrible crimes that have directly negatively affected many millions and continues to do so in the name of religion and Zionism. Would you like to watch videos of Hamas throwing people off roofs? I support the democratic western minded state, whilst recognising that you aren't wrong about crimes.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8 Hevon 26 Dec 17 11.12am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Would you like to watch videos of Hamas throwing people off roofs? I support the democratic western minded state, whilst recognising that you aren't wrong about crimes. I support a fair country called Israel but cannot support policies which involve the murder of thousands of children over the last few decades and which pander to religious extremists. I see their hard-right leaders as criminals overseeing a partly rogue state (the occupied territories) involved in the committing of state-sanctioned terrorist acts via the IDF and airforce.
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Cannonball High in the Ozarks. 26 Dec 17 11.18am | |
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Israelies are always whinning about the holocaust,yet it seems to me that they are treating the people whos land they steal and children they murder just as badly.
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BarEagle Monmouth 26 Dec 17 11.36am | |
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Originally posted by Cannonball
Israelies are always whinning about the holocaust,yet it seems to me that they are treating the people whos land they steal and children they murder just as badly. That is a terrible comparison. Terrible and shameful. Israelis react they don't randomly, systematically or recklessly send indiscriminate bombs into the other side of the border. Neither do they capture innocent Israelis off the street and torture them on the basis of a political agenda. They react to murder. An objective historical understanding of what Palestine really is may be a start.
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matt_himself Matataland 26 Dec 17 11.53am | |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
more religion = less intelligence. And liberal thinkers are more intelligent and more respectful?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Park Road 26 Dec 17 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by BarEagle
That is a terrible comparison. Terrible and shameful. Israelis react they don't randomly, systematically or recklessly send indiscriminate bombs into the other side of the border. Neither do they capture innocent Israelis off the street and torture them on the basis of a political agenda. They react to murder. An objective historical understanding of what Palestine really is may be a start. You might want to read this by amnesty. Israelis are not just reactionaries but instigators.
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wordup 26 Dec 17 12.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Park Road
You might want to read this by amnesty. Israelis are not just reactionaries but instigators. Yes it's a simplified view to imagine that just because one side operates through military means that it's all 'above board'. Clearly there are people on each side who despise the other and they operate through whatever system is in place to let their exact that emotion and further their territories agenda. Whether you're Israeli or Palestinian if you feel that members of your family have been unjustly killed by the other side, I'm sure that the nuances of the situation aren't something you let take centre stage. Unfortunately. Edited by wordup (26 Dec 2017 12.12pm)
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legaleagle 26 Dec 17 1.12pm | |
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Originally posted by BarEagle
That is a terrible comparison. Terrible and shameful. Israelis react they don't randomly, systematically or recklessly send indiscriminate bombs into the other side of the border. Neither do they capture innocent Israelis off the street and torture them on the basis of a political agenda. They react to murder. An objective historical understanding of what Palestine really is may be a start. It is an invalid and lazy comparison. Israel illegally occupies the occupied territories and has committed unjustified violence against Palestinians and dispossessed them of land.Palestinians have at times committed inappropriate violence against Israelis. Israeli actions might legitimately be characterised as brutal oppression at times,but in a context where the oppressed reject the Israeli's legal right to self- determination in the region at all.To compare that to the near unique industrial slaughter of 6 million is inappropriate. The holocaust might be better compared to our actions in N America and Australia.To lightly compare it to situations such as Palestine undermines the unique evils of genocide.And brutal and oppressive though Israel has at times been,it has not been genocidal.A closer example to genocidal- like behaviour in the region has been seen in actions towards the Yazidis. Going back to the thread more generally,Trump's stance on Jerusalem is wholly inappropriate and unhelpful (as is Netanyahu's). Edited by legaleagle (26 Dec 2017 1.16pm)
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matt_himself Matataland 26 Dec 17 4.09pm | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
It is an invalid and lazy comparison. Israel illegally occupies the occupied territories and has committed unjustified violence against Palestinians and dispossessed them of land.Palestinians have at times committed inappropriate violence against Israelis. Israeli actions might legitimately be characterised as brutal oppression at times,but in a context where the oppressed reject the Israeli's legal right to self- determination in the region at all.To compare that to the near unique industrial slaughter of 6 million is inappropriate. The holocaust might be better compared to our actions in N America and Australia.To lightly compare it to situations such as Palestine undermines the unique evils of genocide.And brutal and oppressive though Israel has at times been,it has not been genocidal.A closer example to genocidal- like behaviour in the region has been seen in actions towards the Yazidis. Going back to the thread more generally,Trump's stance on Jerusalem is wholly inappropriate and unhelpful (as is Netanyahu's). Edited by legaleagle (26 Dec 2017 1.16pm) And what do you expect the Israelis to do after years of violence thrown against them? Just sit there and act all liberal, full well knowing that their natural allies won’t support them because the real politik of the situation is unpalatable for liberal nations? That the history of Jewish people in this world is one of suppression, holocaust and denial, therefore when they get their promised land, they have to fulfil some impossible doctrine in order to fit with European ideals? The truth is that Israel, Palestine and the Middle East is a no win situation. What Israel is doing is not ‘genocide’, it is a natural reaction to a horrible situation.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 26 Dec 17 5.16pm | |
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Reading this thread makes me more convinced than ever that Jerusalem should not belong to ay country, let alone be a capital city. A place of Jerusalem's importance to many religions should not belong to any political entity.
Divorced...And LOVING it! |
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Kermit8 Hevon 26 Dec 17 5.32pm | |
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Shocking as it is 2,167 Palestinian children and 134 Israeli children have been killed since September 29, 2000. Scum on both sides but for those that see Israel as having the moral high ground the majority of Palestinian children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.
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