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Is Capitalism Broken?

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 24 Oct 17 5.44pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

So the, what I would call 'crimes' of Ian Brady are neither bad nor good? Why did the law bother punishing him? Surely in your view he did nothing 'wrong' as you don't believe in the concept.

Because we have a very good series of arguments that what he did was wrong (jurisprudence).

The important thing isn't whether he was right, or wrong, its about the capacity to demonstrate why he was wrong to others. If someone can better present a case why someone wasn't wrong (or not the right person) then whether they are good or bad is irrelivent, as they'd be found not guilty.

Obviously its an extreme case, but if the defence proves Brady was innocent, even though he killed those kids, it doesn't matter whether killing kids is good or bad, it matters how you argue your case. Same way it doesn't matter if your intentions are good, you can still be adjudged as bad.

Typically, a jury in this case.

It isn't that Brady was bad, or that killing children is bad, but the capacity to demonstrate it one way or another.

At which point, its not about good or bad, its about how well you can convince others that something is good or bad.

Obviously I think he's bad, but the key is proving that, not what you think, or feel, but your capacity to influence others. Certainly, he convinced at least one person that sexual torture of children wasn't a bad thing to do (Hindley).

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 24 Oct 17 5.52pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Because we have a very good series of arguments that what he did was wrong (jurisprudence).

The important thing isn't whether he was right, or wrong, its about the capacity to demonstrate why he was wrong to others. If someone can better present a case why someone wasn't wrong (or not the right person) then whether they are good or bad is irrelivent, as they'd be found not guilty.

Obviously its an extreme case, but if the defence proves Brady was innocent, even though he killed those kids, it doesn't matter whether killing kids is good or bad, it matters how you argue your case. Same way it doesn't matter if your intentions are good, you can still be adjudged as bad.

Typically, a jury in this case.

It isn't that Brady was bad, or that killing children is bad, but the capacity to demonstrate it one way or another.

At which point, its not about good or bad, its about how well you can convince others that something is good or bad.

Obviously I think he's bad, but the key is proving that, not what you think, or feel, but your capacity to influence others. Certainly, he convinced at least one person that sexual torture of children wasn't a bad thing to do (Hindley).

It's much simpler than all this waffle. It is good v evil and people taking personal responsibility for doing the right thing rather than the wrong thing. It most practical circumstances sane people know the difference between right and wrong, they make a choice.

Edited by hedgehog50 (24 Oct 2017 6.18pm)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 24 Oct 17 6.02pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

In accordance with my leftie liberal soft view on crime I would have hanged the b*****d without trial and just because I felt like it.

Many times.


 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 24 Oct 17 6.17pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

In accordance with my leftie liberal soft view on crime I would have hanged the b*****d without trial and just because I felt like it.

Many times.

Child abuse seems to be the only subject you are sound on - so not a complete commie b******!

Edited by hedgehog50 (24 Oct 2017 6.18pm)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 24 Oct 17 6.55pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Oddly, I would suggest that Morality and Ethics might not be an evolutionary advantage to the individual, but maybe to the species, and genetic diversity as a whole.

Morality and Ethics probably make it harder to pass on your own genetic material, but over time they ensure a wider and more diverse genetic pool. Especially, as the history of morals and ethics generally have been towards increasing individuals capacity.

For example, changes in racial and womens rights, led to greater sexual liberation, and wider diversity of sexual partners.


That is possibly not a contradiction. Perhaps on the balance of probability, a species wide or wider benefit could actually filter down an advantage to individuals that trumps advantage gained by more 'selfish' behaviour in certain circumstances.

 

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