John Le Carre bemoans resurgence of fascist sentim

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John Le Carre bemoans resurgence of fascist sentim

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Sep 17 8.16am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Should someone compile a list of incidents that 'have nothing to do with Islam', but have been carried out by Muslims? The fear is that the HOL IT Servers would not cope with the post. If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 14 Sep 17 8.16am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Should someone compile a list of incidents that 'have nothing to do with Islam', but have been carried out by Muslims? The fear is that the HOL IT Servers would not cope with the post.

If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 14 Sep 17 8.34am
Originally posted by nickgusset If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point. But surely it has 'absolutely nothing whatever to do with Sikhism', or is it only the activities of Muslims that have nothing to do with their religion? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 14 Sep 17 8.34am

Originally posted by nickgusset

If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point.

But surely it has 'absolutely nothing whatever to do with Sikhism', or is it only the activities of Muslims that have nothing to do with their religion?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 17 10.09am
Originally posted by Slimey Toad I don't see how the the likes of the BNP are pro-democratic when they clearly would like to remove any democratic rights from certain groups of people. Or are referring to a kind of Athenian democracy where the citizens can vote, but not slaves? Because they stand in elections, and put their policy to the population to decide. That's the basis of democracy, and as much as I might hate them, the fact that they're prepared to do that, no matter how much of a neo-fascist background they have, to me, makes them democratic. Because in reality, if we, the people, should be represented - if 5% of the population support these cts and their policy, then they deserve to be represented in government. I don't like UKIP but its a display of how corrupt our democratic system is that they got twice as many votes as the Liberal Democrats at a national election, and returned one seat to the lib dems 8 or so. Either you're democratic, and everyone gets a vote that counts, even the cts, or you're just playing a rigged system. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Sep 17 10.09am

Originally posted by Slimey Toad

I don't see how the the likes of the BNP are pro-democratic when they clearly would like to remove any democratic rights from certain groups of people.

Or are referring to a kind of Athenian democracy where the citizens can vote, but not slaves?

Because they stand in elections, and put their policy to the population to decide. That's the basis of democracy, and as much as I might hate them, the fact that they're prepared to do that, no matter how much of a neo-fascist background they have, to me, makes them democratic.

Because in reality, if we, the people, should be represented - if 5% of the population support these c**ts and their policy, then they deserve to be represented in government.

I don't like UKIP but its a display of how corrupt our democratic system is that they got twice as many votes as the Liberal Democrats at a national election, and returned one seat to the lib dems 8 or so.

Either you're democratic, and everyone gets a vote that counts, even the c**ts, or you're just playing a rigged system.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 17 10.24am
Originally posted by youngpalacefan111 could be worse Kermit, Hillary could be in charge. You know the one who defended the guy who raped a 12 year old girl and laughed about it knowing full well he was guilty.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDzRtZLUkc I honestly think the US would have been better off without a president, than with Trump. I didn't like Hilary, but at least she was reasonably competent and intelligent. She was a lawyer, its her job. The legal systems of both the UK and US are accusatorial systems, and as such the law requires that defendant receive the best defence possible, in order to achieve a fair trial. And that means people accused of child rape. Even if you know they're guilty, deserve a fair trial and representation. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Sep 17 10.24am

Originally posted by youngpalacefan111

could be worse Kermit, Hillary could be in charge. You know the one who defended the guy who raped a 12 year old girl and laughed about it knowing full well he was guilty.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDzRtZLUkc

I honestly think the US would have been better off without a president, than with Trump. I didn't like Hilary, but at least she was reasonably competent and intelligent.

She was a lawyer, its her job. The legal systems of both the UK and US are accusatorial systems, and as such the law requires that defendant receive the best defence possible, in order to achieve a fair trial.

And that means people accused of child rape. Even if you know they're guilty, deserve a fair trial and representation.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 17 10.26am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Are the EDL anti democratic? I've had a look at 'national action' and what I saw wasn't very pretty...so yeah. I'll have a look at EDL. They represent a political movement in the UK that does not participate in elections, and instead exist as a street movement. Like Antifa, that makes them very questionable in my book, as they kind of fulfil a critiera of fascist movements (and communist movements) that see the route to political change through direct action, and not democratic process. Fundermentally, the pursuit of political change, through non-democratic change. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Sep 17 10.26am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Are the EDL anti democratic? I've had a look at 'national action' and what I saw wasn't very pretty...so yeah.

I'll have a look at EDL.

They represent a political movement in the UK that does not participate in elections, and instead exist as a street movement.

Like Antifa, that makes them very questionable in my book, as they kind of fulfil a critiera of fascist movements (and communist movements) that see the route to political change through direct action, and not democratic process.

Fundermentally, the pursuit of political change, through non-democratic change.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 17 10.30am
Originally posted by nickgusset If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point. I think a lot of people in the EDL are 'naughty boys' - It wouldn't surprise me that it would appeal to Sikhs with very anti-muslim attitudes. I don't think it would accurately describe Sikhs in general, any more than ISIS represent muslims that you meet and interact with in every day life. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Sep 17 10.30am

Originally posted by nickgusset

If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point.

I think a lot of people in the EDL are 'naughty boys' - It wouldn't surprise me that it would appeal to Sikhs with very anti-muslim attitudes.

I don't think it would accurately describe Sikhs in general, any more than ISIS represent muslims that you meet and interact with in every day life.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 17 10.35am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 But surely it has 'absolutely nothing whatever to do with Sikhism', or is it only the activities of Muslims that have nothing to do with their religion? It doesn't, it almost certainly has much more to do with individuals. Same as c**ts who bomb Pop gigs, or abortion clinics, the problem is much more with those individuals, than the religion they justify their acts in the name of. Fundamentalism appeals to and embraces the intolerant, and gives those who are vicious, or insecure, something that they are allowed to hate. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Sep 17 10.35am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

But surely it has 'absolutely nothing whatever to do with Sikhism', or is it only the activities of Muslims that have nothing to do with their religion?

It doesn't, it almost certainly has much more to do with individuals. Same as c**ts who bomb Pop gigs, or abortion clinics, the problem is much more with those individuals, than the religion they justify their acts in the name of.

Fundamentalism appeals to and embraces the intolerant, and gives those who are vicious, or insecure, something that they are allowed to hate.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Beanyboysmd 14 Sep 17 10.49am
How to spot a vacuous psudo-interlectual conversation... 'So you have been keeping track of recent events?' 'Yes' 'And you have heard arguements from both sides?' 'Yes' 'And you have done your own research on the subject?' 'Yes, for years now' 'And you have tried to look at the political reasons for it reaching this point?' 'Yes, I think you shouldnt have an opinion until you have done that...' 'Thats good, and so your opinion is based on thoughtful, unbiased debate?' '100 percent, yes' 'And its based on here right? Its not some situation somewhere else and you are going to clumsily try to draw parallels with here?' 'God no! What goes on elsewhere and what goes on here happen for different reasons...' 'Ah good, so what in your opinion is the heart of the issue? What is it that needs to be discussed?' 'COMMUNISM...' Not just here btw, I get this kind of nonscence on facebook too. Because of course the 25 communists in this country are clearly at the heart of every issue and have to be discussed...
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Beanyboysmd

14 Sep 17 10.49am

How to spot a vacuous psudo-interlectual conversation...

'So you have been keeping track of recent events?'
'Yes'
'And you have heard arguements from both sides?'
'Yes'
'And you have done your own research on the subject?'
'Yes, for years now'
'And you have tried to look at the political reasons for it reaching this point?'
'Yes, I think you shouldnt have an opinion until you have done that...'
'Thats good, and so your opinion is based on thoughtful, unbiased debate?'
'100 percent, yes'
'And its based on here right? Its not some situation somewhere else and you are going to clumsily try to draw parallels with here?'
'God no! What goes on elsewhere and what goes on here happen for different reasons...'
'Ah good, so what in your opinion is the heart of the issue? What is it that needs to be discussed?'
'COMMUNISM...'

Not just here btw, I get this kind of nonscence on facebook too. Because of course the 25 communists in this country are clearly at the heart of every issue and have to be discussed...

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hedgehog50 Croydon 14 Sep 17 12.24pm
Originally posted by nickgusset If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point. Gusset prejudiced against Sikhs, who would have thought it - what is the world coming to. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 14 Sep 17 12.24pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

If you want. Doesn't change the fact that Sikhs in the edl are naughty boys. That's the crux of my point.

Gusset prejudiced against Sikhs, who would have thought it - what is the world coming to.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Sep 17 12.58pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Gusset prejudiced against Sikhs, who would have thought it - what is the world coming to. Who said anything about being prejudiced against Sikhs?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 14 Sep 17 12.58pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Gusset prejudiced against Sikhs, who would have thought it - what is the world coming to.

Who said anything about being prejudiced against Sikhs?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 14 Sep 17 1.02pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Who said anything about being prejudiced against Sikhs? You are saying they are fascists! Mind you, as you seem to regard anyone who disagrees with you as fascists, I guess that makes you prejudiced against most people. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 14 Sep 17 1.02pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Who said anything about being prejudiced against Sikhs?

You are saying they are fascists! Mind you, as you seem to regard anyone who disagrees with you as fascists, I guess that makes you prejudiced against most people.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 14 Sep 17 2.10pm
The problem seems to be, that every time someone has an opinion that is slightly right of center Nick and his cohort, start bandying all kind of "ists" about, but the very nano second they themselves are accused of being Trotsky incarnate them selves, they start crying that not all lefties are like that. Well...not all right leaning individuals are knuckle dragging "ists" either. It's something that even moderate lefties seem to jump on the minute they think someone is a daily mail reader. Draw the same comparison to someone who reads the Grauniad and your a an evil "ist" Double standards, is what annoys me about those lefty critters. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 14 Sep 17 2.10pm

The problem seems to be, that every time someone has an opinion that is slightly right of center Nick and his cohort, start bandying all kind of "ists" about, but the very nano second they themselves are accused of being Trotsky incarnate them selves, they start crying that not all lefties are like that.

Well...not all right leaning individuals are knuckle dragging "ists" either.

It's something that even moderate lefties seem to jump on the minute they think someone is a daily mail reader. Draw the same comparison to someone who reads the Grauniad and your a an evil "ist"

Double standards, is what annoys me about those lefty critters.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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