Minister says broadcasters need to be patriotic

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Minister says broadcasters need to be patriotic

Page 8 of 8 << First < 4 5 6 7 8

jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Jun 17 4.02am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Only very stupid people believe that the media shouldn't be patriotic. Only very stupid people believe that the media should be this or that....or speak with one voice. The point is that only very stupid people believe that their perspective is the only truth and not a perspective. Even statistical facts rely upon interpretation. I have no problem with news being patriotic or not being patriotic. Every perceptive should be open to criticism and the marketplace of ideas. Every non violent group deserves its representation and voice. Its ideas free to be spoken and challenged. However where we probably disagree is in how important it is to protect the state. Freedoms aren't automatic. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2017 1.13pm) The problem is once you require the media to be patriotic you immediately create a situation in which arguments that are critical of the state are immediately shut down regardless of their validity or value on the basis that they are critical of the state. In doing so you create a media that has the objective of validating the state and undermines free speech and freedom of the press's. It becomes propaganda. The state is not the country. A patriot should be loyal to the ideals of a country not the state itself and sometimes that means standing against the state when those representing it are wrong. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Jun 17 4.02am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Only very stupid people believe that the media shouldn't be patriotic. Only very stupid people believe that the media should be this or that....or speak with one voice.

The point is that only very stupid people believe that their perspective is the only truth and not a perspective. Even statistical facts rely upon interpretation.

I have no problem with news being patriotic or not being patriotic. Every perceptive should be open to criticism and the marketplace of ideas.

Every non violent group deserves its representation and voice. Its ideas free to be spoken and challenged.

However where we probably disagree is in how important it is to protect the state. Freedoms aren't automatic.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2017 1.13pm)

The problem is once you require the media to be patriotic you immediately create a situation in which arguments that are critical of the state are immediately shut down regardless of their validity or value on the basis that they are critical of the state. In doing so you create a media that has the objective of validating the state and undermines free speech and freedom of the press's. It becomes propaganda.

The state is not the country. A patriot should be loyal to the ideals of a country not the state itself and sometimes that means standing against the state when those representing it are wrong.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Jun 17 4.06am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I disagree with everything you typed.....except for how badly written Dr Who is.....I've never understood why that show gets so much praise....well scrub that...I do understand why...it's 'liberal left' bias. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2017 1.17pm) Me too. Can't watch it without being bored. Oddly I really lime Moffits work as he co wrote the excellent Coupling. I think its a bit like loving Harry Potter. Yeah sure, its great if your a kid, but as an adult you probably should have higher standards "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Jun 17 4.06am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I disagree with everything you typed.....except for how badly written Dr Who is.....I've never understood why that show gets so much praise....well scrub that...I do understand why...it's 'liberal left' bias.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2017 1.17pm)

Me too. Can't watch it without being bored. Oddly I really lime Moffits work as he co wrote the excellent Coupling. I think its a bit like loving Harry Potter. Yeah sure, its great if your a kid, but as an adult you probably should have higher standards

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Jun 17 4.14am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That is not true. It has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with misrepresentation. I like the lesbian character in Dr Who, I actually think she is quite good. The stories generally are bloody awful. The problem with Dr Who is it's obsession with including as many non white faces as it can manage to a level which is way above the national demographic. For every 30 characters there should be about one black person and 2 Asians. I know in London it is more but London is not representative of Britain. I think this is kind of what I said. You seem to expect an accurate representation of racial demographics in a show about time travelling aliens. Plus I'm not sure how true your statement is, given that for the most part the main cast are about as white middle class stereotypes of British society as you can get. In fairness I haven't seen many episodes recently, because I find it dull, childish and pandering to an audience on a superficial level. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Jun 17 4.14am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is not true.

It has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with misrepresentation. I like the lesbian character in Dr Who, I actually think she is quite good. The stories generally are bloody awful.
The problem with Dr Who is it's obsession with including as many non white faces as it can manage to a level which is way above the national demographic. For every 30 characters there should be about one black person and 2 Asians. I know in London it is more but London is not representative of Britain.

I think this is kind of what I said. You seem to expect an accurate representation of racial demographics in a show about time travelling aliens. Plus I'm not sure how true your statement is, given that for the most part the main cast are about as white middle class stereotypes of British society as you can get.

In fairness I haven't seen many episodes recently, because I find it dull, childish and pandering to an audience on a superficial level.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 26 Jun 17 4.49am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Me too. Can't watch it without being bored. Oddly I really lime Moffits work as he co wrote the excellent Coupling. I think its a bit like loving Harry Potter. Yeah sure, its great if your a kid, but as an adult you probably should have higher standards He seems to the 'darling' at the moment....and truly...I really don't get it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

26 Jun 17 4.49am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

He seems to the 'darling' at the moment....and truly...I really don't get it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 26 Jun 17 4.54am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The problem is once you require the media to be patriotic you immediately create a situation in which arguments that are critical of the state are immediately shut down regardless of their validity or value on the basis that they are critical of the state. In doing so you create a media that has the objective of validating the state and undermines free speech and freedom of the press's. It becomes propaganda. The state is not the country. A patriot should be loyal to the ideals of a country not the state itself and sometimes that means standing against the state when those representing it are wrong. Essentially I agree. I believe a cultural nationalism with a small 'n' can be a positive. However, I don't believe 'my country right or wrong' is a good thing at all. I just wished to push the view that a position that criticises the state is just as open to criticism as one that doesn't. It comes down to perspective. The freedom to do either is important. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2017 6.54am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

26 Jun 17 4.54am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The state is not the country. A patriot should be loyal to the ideals of a country not the state itself and sometimes that means standing against the state when those representing it are wrong.

Essentially I agree.

I believe a cultural nationalism with a small 'n' can be a positive. However, I don't believe 'my country right or wrong' is a good thing at all.

I just wished to push the view that a position that criticises the state is just as open to criticism as one that doesn't. It comes down to perspective.

The freedom to do either is important.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2017 6.54am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Nevada Eagle Carson City, Nevada 26 Jun 17 5.52am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Ah yes the morning star. Remember some bloke late 70's selling that commie crap in front of the Whitgift centre every saturday when I was on my way to Selhurst. One of the blokes I worked with on the building site says he was a teacher back at his school. Nickname "Wolfie". How about the Morning Star, what do you consider that to be. Sing up ya bums
Alert a moderator to this post

Nevada Eagle

Carson City, Nevada 26 Jun 17 5.52am

Originally posted by hedgehog50 Ah yes the morning star. Remember some bloke late 70's selling that commie crap in front of the Whitgift centre every saturday when I was on my way to Selhurst. One of the blokes I worked with on the building site says he was a teacher back at his school. Nickname "Wolfie".

How about the Morning Star, what do you consider that to be.

Sing up ya bums

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Jun 17 2.26pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Essentially I agree. I believe a cultural nationalism with a small 'n' can be a positive. However, I don't believe 'my country right or wrong' is a good thing at all. I just wished to push the view that a position that criticises the state is just as open to criticism as one that doesn't. It comes down to perspective. The freedom to do either is important. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2017 6.54am) Definitely, in fact I think small nationalism, is a force that keeps government abuse of power in check. Freedom of speech has no value if it stifles the right to reply. Otherwise its just people shouting rhetoric. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Jun 17 2.26pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Essentially I agree.

I believe a cultural nationalism with a small 'n' can be a positive. However, I don't believe 'my country right or wrong' is a good thing at all.

I just wished to push the view that a position that criticises the state is just as open to criticism as one that doesn't. It comes down to perspective.

The freedom to do either is important.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2017 6.54am)

Definitely, in fact I think small nationalism, is a force that keeps government abuse of power in check.

Freedom of speech has no value if it stifles the right to reply. Otherwise its just people shouting rhetoric.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Jun 17 2.34pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays He seems to the 'darling' at the moment....and truly...I really don't get it. Same reason people think that J K Rowling is the greatest writer ever. They've not read enough, its just the televisual equivalent. They just seem numerous because they're swelled by the fact that it appeals to young kids and teens, who have the excuse of knowing better. Some of the episodes he wrote are pretty good, but they're 'franchise' writing, which means you're limited in what you can do and the direction you can take, and what you can do. Pressgang, Jekyll and Coupling (which I cannot praise seasons 1-3 enough) are why Moffit is a good writer. Also, side note, why are all of Dr Who's primary companions women now? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Jun 17 2.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

He seems to the 'darling' at the moment....and truly...I really don't get it.

Same reason people think that J K Rowling is the greatest writer ever. They've not read enough, its just the televisual equivalent. They just seem numerous because they're swelled by the fact that it appeals to young kids and teens, who have the excuse of knowing better.

Some of the episodes he wrote are pretty good, but they're 'franchise' writing, which means you're limited in what you can do and the direction you can take, and what you can do.

Pressgang, Jekyll and Coupling (which I cannot praise seasons 1-3 enough) are why Moffit is a good writer.

Also, side note, why are all of Dr Who's primary companions women now?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 8 of 8 << First < 4 5 6 7 8

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Minister says broadcasters need to be patriotic

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors