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Martin McGuinness

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 22 Mar 17 11.43am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you think the Pope will make him a saint?

No one who kills people is a hero. They might be a necessary evil, an required means of keeping the peace, or even those who liberate a nation from brutal oppression.

But they aren't heroes. These are actions that at best should be considered regrettable necessity. There is no glory in killing, no matter what the outcome.

The violence of NI should be something we look back on as a lesson in how to avoid creating the kind of environment that turns people to violence, not that violence makes men great heroes.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 22 Mar 17 12.55pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

He is without doubt anti British who hides behind his true feelings, dressing them up as being a 'proud Irishman

If he wasn't a pro footballer I've no doubt he would be sitting in a squat in Derry getting high and rambling on about those 'b****** Brits' blah blah blah.

McLean is a c***....

Mcguiness was a c*** on a far grander scale. He opted for peace and to go straight for no other reason than to stop himself spending the rest of his life in prison. He didn't do it for the people... He did it to save his own skin after years of murdering and butchering innocent people.

100 Percent correct.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 22 Mar 17 12.57pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

More like Hess or Speer I'd have said, than Himmler. Adams has always been of the view that the 'armed struggle alone' would not be enough. They were certainly progressives, in so much as they realised early on, that a military victory wasn't achievable.

I'm more than happy to label such people 'progressives'.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Mar 17 1.54pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I'm more than happy to label such people 'progressives'.

On their big toe?

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 22 Mar 17 2.36pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

No one who kills people is a hero. They might be a necessary evil, an required means of keeping the peace, or even those who liberate a nation from brutal oppression.

But they aren't heroes. These are actions that at best should be considered regrettable necessity. There is no glory in killing, no matter what the outcome.

The violence of NI should be something we look back on as a lesson in how to avoid creating the kind of environment that turns people to violence, not that violence makes men great heroes.

Battle of Britain Pilots
Special forces that save hostages on a regular basis (Iranian siege)
George Cross recipients
Victoria Cross recipients
Douglas Badder
Paddy Mayne
Men of the battle of Rourkes drift
Arnhem
The engima code breakers
The Marines at Goose Green.

History and conflict sadly go hand in hand. To dismiss the acts of combatants so readily (whether someone dies or not) is to be honest ridiculous and a bit lefty even for you.

But please if you consider VC winners to not be hero's I'm sure the queen and the Chief of General Staff would be only to pleased to listen to your (unfounded) objections.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 22 Mar 17 2.56pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Battle of Britain Pilots
Special forces that save hostages on a regular basis (Iranian siege)
George Cross recipients
Victoria Cross recipients
Douglas Badder
Paddy Mayne
Men of the battle of Rourkes drift
Arnhem
The engima code breakers
The Marines at Goose Green.

History and conflict sadly go hand in hand. To dismiss the acts of combatants so readily (whether someone dies or not) is to be honest ridiculous and a bit lefty even for you.

But please if you consider VC winners to not be hero's I'm sure the queen and the Chief of General Staff would be only to pleased to listen to your (unfounded) objections.

They're not heroes, they're men, pushed into a difficult situation, in terrible times and asked to do something none of us would want to do. I think some of them are probably heroes, but not because they killed people, but for the people they protected and saved in those situations.

The killing, is regrettable. It concerns me more that we as a nation are willing to send our children to fight and die, over issues that aren't really 'necessary' (ala Iraq), and we justify this by calling them heroes, losing sight of the fact its the bloke next doors son, my cousins daughter.

Growing up, my next door neighbour was an ex-Commando from WWII, as hard as nails and soft as s**te. A brave, gentle and generous man, despite the fact he'd killed people. I'd say, that's what made him a hero, the fact that he'd done terrible, necessary things and remained a good, gentle kind man, who quietly raised his family, and played with the grandchildren and looked after the kids next door.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 22 Mar 17 3.08pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

They're not heroes, they're men, pushed into a difficult situation, in terrible times and asked to do something none of us would want to do. I think some of them are probably heroes, but not because they killed people, but for the people they protected and saved in those situations.

The killing, is regrettable. It concerns me more that we as a nation are willing to send our children to fight and die, over issues that aren't really 'necessary' (ala Iraq), and we justify this by calling them heroes, losing sight of the fact its the bloke next doors son, my cousins daughter.

Growing up, my next door neighbour was an ex-Commando from WWII, as hard as nails and soft as s**te. A brave, gentle and generous man, despite the fact he'd killed people. I'd say, that's what made him a hero, the fact that he'd done terrible, necessary things and remained a good, gentle kind man, who quietly raised his family, and played with the grandchildren and looked after the kids next door.

The rest of the world would disagree, so who would you consider a hero ?

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 22 Mar 17 3.09pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

They're not heroes, they're men, pushed into a difficult situation, in terrible times and asked to do something none of us would want to do. I think some of them are probably heroes, but not because they killed people, but for the people they protected and saved in those situations.

The killing, is regrettable. It concerns me more that we as a nation are willing to send our children to fight and die, over issues that aren't really 'necessary' (ala Iraq), and we justify this by calling them heroes, losing sight of the fact its the bloke next doors son, my cousins daughter.

Growing up, my next door neighbour was an ex-Commando from WWII, as hard as nails and soft as s**te. A brave, gentle and generous man, despite the fact he'd killed people. I'd say, that's what made him a hero, the fact that he'd done terrible, necessary things and remained a good, gentle kind man, who quietly raised his family, and played with the grandchildren and looked after the kids next door.

I'd say that's exactly what makes them heroes.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 22 Mar 17 3.20pm

Originally posted by dannyh

The rest of the world would disagree, so who would you consider a hero ?

As I said the bloke next door I grew up next too. Not because he killed people or fought, but because he went through all of that horror and came back from it to remain a good man.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 22 Mar 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I'd say that's exactly what makes them heroes.

Does that apply to the people they were fighting? We're the Luftwaffe pilots flying the bombers heroes, the Zulu's at Rouke's Drift, the young Argentine recruits fighting at Goose Green. Its the actions in which you transcend the situation around you.

My hero is Lisa Potts, the young woman who protected small children in her care, from a lunatic with a machete, despite having no skills to speak of, or weapon of her own.

We don't regard them as heroes, because they fought on the other side. Some people regard the IRA as heroes, they aren't, but you could make an argument that they were. After all they were fighting against a far superior foe, with better training, equipment and numbers and many died for that 'cause'.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 22 Mar 17 3.44pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Does that apply to the people they were fighting? We're the Luftwaffe pilots flying the bombers heroes, the Zulu's at Rouke's Drift, the young Argentine recruits fighting at Goose Green. Its the actions in which you transcend the situation around you.

My hero is Lisa Potts, the young woman who protected small children in her care, from a lunatic with a machete, despite having no skills to speak of, or weapon of her own.

We don't regard them as heroes, because they fought on the other side. Some people regard the IRA as heroes, they aren't, but you could make an argument that they were. After all they were fighting against a far superior foe, with better training, equipment and numbers and many died for that 'cause'.

Of course. You defined the word 'hero' perfectly in your earlier post - ordinary people, in a situation not of their making, over which they had no influence or control, acting extraordinarily. Not particularly for a cause or ideology but doing what is intrinsically 'right'.

The 'side' they're on doesn't really come into it.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 22 Mar 17 3.57pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

the bloke who flew at high altitude and dropped the bomb on Hiroshima got a medal for valour.

not really as brave as a Southern rail ticket inspector if you ask me.

maybe risking your own life gets bravery medals. But there shouldnt be medals or accolades for killing people. No matter what army you are in.

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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