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Why The Deterioration In Pardew's Performance?
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 Den1923  31 Oct 16 7.47am |
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I'm sorry this is nothing to do with top eight finishing, what we are concerned about is consistent poor results at home to teams that we should be beating if we want to stay in this league. We cannot afford to give points away at home to the likes of Bournemouth, Watford and WBA if we want to remain in the PL. The balance of the team is wrong, we have weaknesses in all departments and that is after we have spent a lot of money in CP terms on players who are not delivering, some of which are prone to injuries. The second half of last season we were found out and PL results were poor and we would have been relegated had we not done so well in the first period of that season and again this year the second half of last year is repeating itself but this time in the first half of this season so the future is bleak!
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Petereagle  Brockley 31 Oct 16 8.14am |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
The fundamental problem with the OP's argument is that we've not played two 33 games seasons since he arrived. If that were how seasons were judged Villa, Sunderland, Swansea, Everton, Southampton, and West Ham would have gone down over the last couple of seasons. His team has played all or part of three seasons. His record the first season: P18; W10; D1; L7. We went from 18th to 10th. So, since he's been here we have survived another two seasons (in of itself that's almost as good as Coppell), and got us to an FA Cup Final (matching Coppell), and has us looking fairly comfortable in mid table playing some decent football. That makes him, right now, the second best manager in the entire 111 year history of the club. So, all in all, not too shabby. He's made some mistakes, but the squad we have now is younger and much better than the one he inherited. Given where we have come from (in my lifetime we've really been a second division team and our infrastructure is still largely reminiscent of that level of club) what he has managed is pretty darn good. People seem upset that he is cocky and arrogant (so what?), that he sold fan favourites (with the exception of Murray, he's been spot on in terms of who had to go and the timing), and that he's a streaky manager (again so what?). Other criticism relates to him being tactically poor (judging the results of the three full/part seasons he has been with us he has done well (and the pundits talk about how tactically astute he is)), or that he struggles to motivate the players (again the results seem to belie that, as do pundit comments and press reports). So, people are talking about getting rid of our second best ever manager for the sin, in essence, of not consistently challenging for the top 8, or that they just don't like him. Because that is what much of this thread boils down to. Madness.
What a good post! A lot of bracing good sense.
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| The Dolphin 31 Oct 16 9.56am |
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Originally posted by Painter
I think the real issue is with recruitment and that cannot be blamed on Pardew alone. Clubs like Southampton and Leicester have a great recruitment team led by Les Reed at Saints and Steve Walsh previously at Leicester now been poached by one of the big teams. What have we in terms of scouting and recruitment in place? We used to have a Director of Football ( not sure what he ever did? ) but he resigned over some scandal at Cardiff, now what have we got? That centre back for Liverpool Matip came on a free, he looked very good, obviously scouted by someone at Liverpool who saw his potential, apparently they got him in April and worked on him during the summer, now fits into their team. Its suits some people to blame everything on Pardew, but he doesn't do everything at the club. Now whilst we have done really well to get where we are, the infrastructure at the club has faults. Blaming Pardew after every defeat is pointless, as if we get a new manager the same will happen again, until we improve our recruitment policy. AP's interview with Lineker the other day told us that AP is heavily involved and says who he does and doesn't want.
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| sickboy Deal or Croydon 31 Oct 16 10.03am |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
The fundamental problem with the OP's argument is that we've not played two 33 games seasons since he arrived. If that were how seasons were judged Villa, Sunderland, Swansea, Everton, Southampton, and West Ham would have gone down over the last couple of seasons. His team has played all or part of three seasons. His record the first season: P18; W10; D1; L7. We went from 18th to 10th. So, since he's been here we have survived another two seasons (in of itself that's almost as good as Coppell), and got us to an FA Cup Final (matching Coppell), and has us looking fairly comfortable in mid table playing some decent football. That makes him, right now, the second best manager in the entire 111 year history of the club. So, all in all, not too shabby. He's made some mistakes, but the squad we have now is younger and much better than the one he inherited. Given where we have come from (in my lifetime we've really been a second division team and our infrastructure is still largely reminiscent of that level of club) what he has managed is pretty darn good. People seem upset that he is cocky and arrogant (so what?), that he sold fan favourites (with the exception of Murray, he's been spot on in terms of who had to go and the timing), and that he's a streaky manager (again so what?). Other criticism relates to him being tactically poor (judging the results of the three full/part seasons he has been with us he has done well (and the pundits talk about how tactically astute he is)), or that he struggles to motivate the players (again the results seem to belie that, as do pundit comments and press reports). So, people are talking about getting rid of our second best ever manager for the sin, in essence, of not consistently challenging for the top 8, or that they just don't like him. Because that is what much of this thread boils down to. Madness.
Well said.
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| Den1923 31 Oct 16 1.23pm |
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okay lets take this to another level, if the Manager is not to blame then the buck has to stop with Steve Parish!
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| Canterbury Palace Whitstable 31 Oct 16 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
The fundamental problem with the OP's argument is that we've not played two 33 games seasons since he arrived. If that were how seasons were judged Villa, Sunderland, Swansea, Everton, Southampton, and West Ham would have gone down over the last couple of seasons. His team has played all or part of three seasons. His record the first season: P18; W10; D1; L7. We went from 18th to 10th. So, since he's been here we have survived another two seasons (in of itself that's almost as good as Coppell), and got us to an FA Cup Final (matching Coppell), and has us looking fairly comfortable in mid table playing some decent football. That makes him, right now, the second best manager in the entire 111 year history of the club. So, all in all, not too shabby. He's made some mistakes, but the squad we have now is younger and much better than the one he inherited. Given where we have come from (in my lifetime we've really been a second division team and our infrastructure is still largely reminiscent of that level of club) what he has managed is pretty darn good. People seem upset that he is cocky and arrogant (so what?), that he sold fan favourites (with the exception of Murray, he's been spot on in terms of who had to go and the timing), and that he's a streaky manager (again so what?). Other criticism relates to him being tactically poor (judging the results of the three full/part seasons he has been with us he has done well (and the pundits talk about how tactically astute he is)), or that he struggles to motivate the players (again the results seem to belie that, as do pundit comments and press reports). So, people are talking about getting rid of our second best ever manager for the sin, in essence, of not consistently challenging for the top 8, or that they just don't like him. Because that is what much of this thread boils down to. Madness.
Unfortunately though, if we break his games down season by season, it still shows a deterioration. Points per game 14/15 - 1.72 Goals scored per game 14/15 - 1.50 Goals conceded per game 14/15 - 1.16 We are still taking less points than last year and even though we're scoring marginally more per game, it is being massively outweighed by the extra goals we're conceding. Let's not forget that these stats are on the back of a fairly kind opening run of games that has only seen us play 2 of the 'big 6' teams in our opening fixtures. We'll have to play the remaining 4 in our next 9 games so things will get harder. The thing is, regardless of anyone's view on Pardew, the one thing that does unite us is a desire for Palace to do well. The only thing that seperates everyone on here is differing opinions on how we do it. As I wrote in my opening post, I'm not in favour of sacking him at the moment. However, I also think it would be naive to pretend that there are no issues that need addressing and nor is it unfair to discuss them. If he is going to stay in the long term then I think recruitment, substitutions, fitness and these long winless runs are all areas that need to be improved.
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold... |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 31 Oct 16 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
The fundamental problem with the OP's argument is that we've not played two 33 games seasons since he arrived. If that were how seasons were judged Villa, Sunderland, Swansea, Everton, Southampton, and West Ham would have gone down over the last couple of seasons. His team has played all or part of three seasons. His record the first season: P18; W10; D1; L7. We went from 18th to 10th. So, since he's been here we have survived another two seasons (in of itself that's almost as good as Coppell), and got us to an FA Cup Final (matching Coppell), and has us looking fairly comfortable in mid table playing some decent football. That makes him, right now, the second best manager in the entire 111 year history of the club. So, all in all, not too shabby. He's made some mistakes, but the squad we have now is younger and much better than the one he inherited. Given where we have come from (in my lifetime we've really been a second division team and our infrastructure is still largely reminiscent of that level of club) what he has managed is pretty darn good. People seem upset that he is cocky and arrogant (so what?), that he sold fan favourites (with the exception of Murray, he's been spot on in terms of who had to go and the timing), and that he's a streaky manager (again so what?). Other criticism relates to him being tactically poor (judging the results of the three full/part seasons he has been with us he has done well (and the pundits talk about how tactically astute he is)), or that he struggles to motivate the players (again the results seem to belie that, as do pundit comments and press reports). So, people are talking about getting rid of our second best ever manager for the sin, in essence, of not consistently challenging for the top 8, or that they just don't like him. Because that is what much of this thread boils down to. Madness.
This. Long term thinking over short term thinking. We're not doing that badly this season, West Brom and West Ham aside, I'd say our results are more or less expected performance level. Reality check, if you want top 8, stick with a manager, and let them build the squad. We arguably over performed with Pulis and Pardew with some exciting finishes - but top 10 is a goal, not an expectation. Realistically, we're a minnow in this league, and always will be. In terms of actual, reasonable analysis, we're doing remarkably well. West Ham was a poor show. But lets be honest, Leicester away, they've not been beaten in 20 games, and Liverpool on Saturday were in a different league. The thing about bogey teams, its 80% coincidence, 10% psychology, 10 % reality
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Diagonal 31 Oct 16 9.17pm |
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Originally posted by Dangermouse
Frustrating. I'd play Flamini over Ledley. Edited by Dangermouse (30 Oct 2016 3.29pm) Me too.
If only it were White, rather than Yellow! |
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| Aray South London 31 Oct 16 9.42pm |
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Originally posted by Den1923
okay lets take this to another level, if the Manager is not to blame then the buck has to stop with Steve Parish! To blame for what? We're mid table you know
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| Den1923 31 Oct 16 10.01pm |
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your living in a dream world, just look at our results against the teams around us and since the start of 2016. That is not mid table form its downwards rather than upwards, its a bit like moving your deckchair around the Titanic to keep your feet dry!
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| Inapickle South West 31 Oct 16 10.22pm |
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Originally posted by Den1923
I'm sorry this is nothing to do with top eight finishing, what we are concerned about is consistent poor results at home to teams that we should be beating if we want to stay in this league. We cannot afford to give points away at home to the likes of Bournemouth, Watford and WBA if we want to remain in the PL. The balance of the team is wrong, we have weaknesses in all departments and that is after we have spent a lot of money in CP terms on players who are not delivering, some of which are prone to injuries. The second half of last season we were found out and PL results were poor and we would have been relegated had we not done so well in the first period of that season and again this year the second half of last year is repeating itself but this time in the first half of this season so the future is bleak! ..the thing is when we play these teams their fans are saying exactly the same thing home and away, the main thing for me is our attitude and commitment during games when we do get it right, in every game we have real decent spells where we look quite capable of doing something ...but at the moment we are having bigger spells of cocking it up with individual mistakes through poor concentration when marking players and it gets considerably worse without the ball, this has been the real cause of all our problems and until somebody is able to make our players wake up and take proper interest in doing these things properly we are going to struggle, apart from this we are doing well.
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| rikz Croydon 31 Oct 16 10.28pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
This. Long term thinking over short term thinking. We're not doing that badly this season, West Brom and West Ham aside, I'd say our results are more or less expected performance level. Reality check, if you want top 8, stick with a manager, and let them build the squad. We arguably over performed with Pulis and Pardew with some exciting finishes - but top 10 is a goal, not an expectation. Realistically, we're a minnow in this league, and always will be. In terms of actual, reasonable analysis, we're doing remarkably well. West Ham was a poor show. But lets be honest, Leicester away, they've not been beaten in 20 games, and Liverpool on Saturday were in a different league. The thing about bogey teams, its 80% coincidence, 10% psychology, 10 % reality Good post.
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