High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

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High immigration levels prevent 'cohesive society'

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Oct 15 7.02pm
Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Oct 15 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low.

For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work?

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration.

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

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leggedstruggle Croydon 07 Oct 15 7.04pm
Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. The factors you list do contribute to low wages and the housing crisis. But it is selective, politically correct, blindness to pretend that the immigration of millions of people prepared to work for low wages has not also been a leading cause of low wages and the housing crisis. Edited by leggedstruggle (07 Oct 2015 7.04pm) mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 07 Oct 15 7.04pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

The factors you list do contribute to low wages and the housing crisis. But it is selective, politically correct, blindness to pretend that the immigration of millions of people prepared to work for low wages has not also been a leading cause of low wages and the housing crisis.

Edited by leggedstruggle (07 Oct 2015 7.04pm)

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Red Al Reading 07 Oct 15 7.09pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Oct 2015 10.06am Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 9.55am Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Oct 2015 9.51am Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 7.54am Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 5.34pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 3.41pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 3.30pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 1.57pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 12.56pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Oct 2015 12.18pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 12.10pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 11.57am Trickle immigration is a good thing for the gene pool but the kind of numbers we have seen in the last 20 years have been insanely large. Shame on the decision makers for putting money before people. My personal theory on this is that the pill is largely responsible for this. A rapidly declining birth rate in the last century plus two world wars has caused politicians to panic and encourage large numbers of tax paying, cheap labour from abroad. The EU free movement laws have made everything worse. It's simple. We need to restrict immigration and encourage people to have more children. Unfortunately, it is probably to late to mend the cultural schisms that we have created. Only extreme measures can change that. I'd agree with this, more or less. The problem isn't really with migration, refugees etc, that's all more or less sustainable. The problem is that around 500,000 migrate to the UK each year, and around 225,000 emigrate each year. That's an unsustainable increase, and needs to be curbed. 42% of that figure comes from inside the EU, 58% from outside - and the vast majority is for work. The problem is that migration to the UK has been adapted by successive governments to fulfill the demands of corporate interests, rather than society, and consequently, this undermines social cohesion (rapid, large scale change, rather than gradual). Don't forget also that immigrants have children which can double/triple the effect on population. Something that many ignore. The fact is that it is immigrants that tend to have the most children and that will change the face of Britain in a very short time. Some might say, so what, but remember that those people vote and their opinion will effect the wider population before too long. It has already begun. Aside from that, imagine a growing problem where various religious groups carry on their little squabbles reflecting what is happening in the Middle East or Asia for example. It is a scary thought. The trouble is that most people just aren't enlightened enough to accept each others differences or cast off their religious ball and chain in pursuit of a more cohesive society. America has had a multi ethnic society for many more years than us and there is no sigh of meaningful cohesion. In general, people still stick to their racial/religious groups. Sadly this does not bode well for the future of Britain. Interestingly though this only really applies to the first generation, less to the second generation and almost never to the third generation. The whole 60s paranoia of how the Blacks or Indian's or pakistanis will replace the whites as the majority, never materialized. And its because its based on a false concept, the idea that its economically sustainable - usually in terms of first generation migrants, it was - because they entered into family businesses, and children could contribute, and the extended family could provide child care. However their kids generally grew up and went either into the family business or careers and jobs, and then larger families become economically unsustainable. By the third generation, the 'family business' tends to be shunned, because the income from outside is better. Its an issue, but not one to be overly concerned about. Plenty of white people who are British have very large families, usually with multiple partners and no economic sustainability. The US is a poor model of comparison. The US has always had a massive racial and religious problem, even until very recently, on a scale that never was seen here. Its also worth noting that Chinese and Indian migrants have generally intergrated very well, where as those who tend to be the target of the most prejudice, black and Muslim, have the worst. Racism is definitely a two way street, but the kind of prejudice exhibited in the 60s and 70s, against West Indians, well its not surprising that it created communities that were isolated and wanted nothing to do with society. And we're doing the same thing with Muslim communities, by targeting whole groups, because of issues with a few. I agree with that to a degree but separatism as a result of prejudice cannot be seen as a white caused problem. Prejudice is universal as you imply and any one going to a new country should not be expecting an easy ride. The whole concept of tolerance is a wonderful ideal but you cannot expect Westerners to accept female genital mutilation, honour killings, witchcraft or any other absurdity that immigrants bring with them. There are some cultural traits that must not be accepted. Many are unlawful for one thing. Your assertion about numbers is dependent on immigration slowing or stopping. If there is a constant stream of migrants then there will always be a new first generation of migrants to have a disproportionate number of offspring. There are definitely some cultures that integrate better than others and a lesson should be learned from that. Some cultures obviously need to try harder. I think the problem initially stems from the way that people tend to think those horrors are the norm in that community. They exist, and they need to be stamped out, but a lot of people who came here maybe to get away from that, or where victims who've come here so their kids could avoid it, end up being stigmatized by the hate these things inspire, and that is dangerous, because it drives those people closer into insular groups, and the more 'fantatical' minority who retain such practices. Things like honor killings are terrible, but they are fairly rare in the UK, and they aren't the fault of a whole community but of those few who can't let the old world ways go (arguably the least integrated). But the more we as a community isolate and demonise parts of our community, the more those kinds of people hold sway. When you look at the people in a ethnic community, you generally find that those who are least willing to integrate are those who cling to their old identity. Most want a balance, they don't necessarily want to let go of their origins, but they also want to embrace some of the freedoms of their new home. It would be extremely unfair to blame an entire community for certain cultural traits but equally we must not be apologists for unacceptable acts. The acceptable level for honour killings is zero as with all the other horrors mentioned. It would be unrealistic to expect any migrant to give up their identity in one generation as many Brits on the continent would attest and it is not a pride in ones origins that are the problem as much as respecting the culture of the country you now live in and it's laws. The problem with humans is they always find ways to divide themselves. That might be the natural way of things, in which case we are in for a rocky ride. If they want to keep their identity and take a pride in their origins, why don't Muslims migrate in large numbers to other Islamic countries, some of which are the richest in the world. Edited by leggedstruggle (07 Oct 2015 7.55am) Probably the same reason why a Protestant Christian wouldn't want to go an live in certain areas of Belfast or Glasgow. A lot of Muslims want to practice their faith and not live in oppressive regimes. A very large number of Muslims in this country would like to see the introduction of Sharia Law which would move this country towards being an oppressive regime. About 28%, which of course would also mean that 72% don't want to do so. For a religious group that's actually fairly low. Plenty of Christians would probably respond that they'd want the ten commandments in UK law. Plenty of Christians seemed to be very keen on the idea that Gay Marriage and Unions should not be law, even though the law is secular and separate from the auspice of Church. Look at abortion in Ireland, how many Catholics and Protestants see that as a religious issue for law, rather than one of choice. Unsurprisingly, people who believe in xGuff want more xGuff in their lives. Well said!
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Red Al

Reading 07 Oct 15 7.09pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Oct 2015 10.06am

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 9.55am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Oct 2015 9.51am

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 7.54am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 5.34pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 3.41pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 3.30pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 1.57pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 12.56pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 06 Oct 2015 12.18pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Oct 2015 12.10pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 06 Oct 2015 11.57am

Trickle immigration is a good thing for the gene pool but the kind of numbers we have seen in the last 20 years have been insanely large. Shame on the decision makers for putting money before people.
My personal theory on this is that the pill is largely responsible for this. A rapidly declining birth rate in the last century plus two world wars has caused politicians to panic and encourage large numbers of tax paying, cheap labour from abroad. The EU free movement laws have made everything worse.
It's simple. We need to restrict immigration and encourage people to have more children.
Unfortunately, it is probably to late to mend the cultural schisms that we have created. Only extreme measures can change that.

I'd agree with this, more or less. The problem isn't really with migration, refugees etc, that's all more or less sustainable.

The problem is that around 500,000 migrate to the UK each year, and around 225,000 emigrate each year. That's an unsustainable increase, and needs to be curbed. 42% of that figure comes from inside the EU, 58% from outside - and the vast majority is for work.

The problem is that migration to the UK has been adapted by successive governments to fulfill the demands of corporate interests, rather than society, and consequently, this undermines social cohesion (rapid, large scale change, rather than gradual).

Don't forget also that immigrants have children which can double/triple the effect on population.

Something that many ignore. The fact is that it is immigrants that tend to have the most children and that will change the face of Britain in a very short time.
Some might say, so what, but remember that those people vote and their opinion will effect the wider population before too long. It has already begun.

Aside from that, imagine a growing problem where various religious groups carry on their little squabbles reflecting what is happening in the Middle East or Asia for example. It is a scary thought.
The trouble is that most people just aren't enlightened enough to accept each others differences or cast off their religious ball and chain in pursuit of a more cohesive society. America has had a multi ethnic society for many more years than us and there is no sigh of meaningful cohesion. In general, people still stick to their racial/religious groups. Sadly this does not bode well for the future of Britain.

Interestingly though this only really applies to the first generation, less to the second generation and almost never to the third generation. The whole 60s paranoia of how the Blacks or Indian's or pakistanis will replace the whites as the majority, never materialized. And its because its based on a false concept, the idea that its economically sustainable - usually in terms of first generation migrants, it was - because they entered into family businesses, and children could contribute, and the extended family could provide child care. However their kids generally grew up and went either into the family business or careers and jobs, and then larger families become economically unsustainable. By the third generation, the 'family business' tends to be shunned, because the income from outside is better.

Its an issue, but not one to be overly concerned about. Plenty of white people who are British have very large families, usually with multiple partners and no economic sustainability.

The US is a poor model of comparison. The US has always had a massive racial and religious problem, even until very recently, on a scale that never was seen here. Its also worth noting that Chinese and Indian migrants have generally intergrated very well, where as those who tend to be the target of the most prejudice, black and Muslim, have the worst.

Racism is definitely a two way street, but the kind of prejudice exhibited in the 60s and 70s, against West Indians, well its not surprising that it created communities that were isolated and wanted nothing to do with society. And we're doing the same thing with Muslim communities, by targeting whole groups, because of issues with a few.

I agree with that to a degree but separatism as a result of prejudice cannot be seen as a white caused problem. Prejudice is universal as you imply and any one going to a new country should not be expecting an easy ride.

The whole concept of tolerance is a wonderful ideal but you cannot expect Westerners to accept female genital mutilation, honour killings, witchcraft or any other absurdity that immigrants bring with them. There are some cultural traits that must not be accepted. Many are unlawful for one thing.

Your assertion about numbers is dependent on immigration slowing or stopping. If there is a constant stream of migrants then there will always be a new first generation of migrants to have a disproportionate number of offspring.

There are definitely some cultures that integrate better than others and a lesson should be learned from that. Some cultures obviously need to try harder.

I think the problem initially stems from the way that people tend to think those horrors are the norm in that community. They exist, and they need to be stamped out, but a lot of people who came here maybe to get away from that, or where victims who've come here so their kids could avoid it, end up being stigmatized by the hate these things inspire, and that is dangerous, because it drives those people closer into insular groups, and the more 'fantatical' minority who retain such practices.

Things like honor killings are terrible, but they are fairly rare in the UK, and they aren't the fault of a whole community but of those few who can't let the old world ways go (arguably the least integrated). But the more we as a community isolate and demonise parts of our community, the more those kinds of people hold sway.

When you look at the people in a ethnic community, you generally find that those who are least willing to integrate are those who cling to their old identity. Most want a balance, they don't necessarily want to let go of their origins, but they also want to embrace some of the freedoms of their new home.

It would be extremely unfair to blame an entire community for certain cultural traits but equally we must not be apologists for unacceptable acts. The acceptable level for honour killings is zero as with all the other horrors mentioned.

It would be unrealistic to expect any migrant to give up their identity in one generation as many Brits on the continent would attest and it is not a pride in ones origins that are the problem as much as respecting the culture of the country you now live in and it's laws.

The problem with humans is they always find ways to divide themselves. That might be the natural way of things, in which case we are in for a rocky ride.

If they want to keep their identity and take a pride in their origins, why don't Muslims migrate in large numbers to other Islamic countries, some of which are the richest in the world.

Edited by leggedstruggle (07 Oct 2015 7.55am)

Probably the same reason why a Protestant Christian wouldn't want to go an live in certain areas of Belfast or Glasgow. A lot of Muslims want to practice their faith and not live in oppressive regimes.

A very large number of Muslims in this country would like to see the introduction of Sharia Law which would move this country towards being an oppressive regime.

About 28%, which of course would also mean that 72% don't want to do so. For a religious group that's actually fairly low. Plenty of Christians would probably respond that they'd want the ten commandments in UK law.

Plenty of Christians seemed to be very keen on the idea that Gay Marriage and Unions should not be law, even though the law is secular and separate from the auspice of Church.

Look at abortion in Ireland, how many Catholics and Protestants see that as a religious issue for law, rather than one of choice.

Unsurprisingly, people who believe in xGuff want more xGuff in their lives.

Well said!

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 07 Oct 15 7.12pm
Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 07 Oct 15 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Time to move forward together.

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oldcodger 07 Oct 15 7.43pm
Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses.
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oldcodger

07 Oct 15 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses.

Alert a moderator to this post

leggedstruggle Croydon 07 Oct 15 8.12pm
Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses. Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why? mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 07 Oct 15 8.12pm

Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 07 Oct 15 8.41pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses. Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why? Yes. We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more. But as long as the rich get richer................ Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 07 Oct 15 8.41pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm

Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why?

Yes.
We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more.
But as long as the rich get richer................

Time to move forward together.

Alert a moderator to this post

leggedstruggle Croydon 08 Oct 15 8.05am
Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 8.41pm Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses. Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why? Yes. We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more. But as long as the rich get richer................ I the rich get poorer, will that make the poorer get richer? mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 08 Oct 15 8.05am

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 8.41pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm

Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why?

Yes.
We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more.
But as long as the rich get richer................

I the rich get poorer, will that make the poorer get richer?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Oct 15 11.37am
Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Oct 2015 8.05am Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 8.41pm Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses. Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why? Yes. We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more. But as long as the rich get richer................ I the rich get poorer, will that make the poorer get richer? Well the rich can generally afford to get poorer, where as the poor certainly can't. The problem often is we set the bar of rich, very low. Someone bringing in less than 100k a year in total isn't rich. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Oct 15 11.37am

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Oct 2015 8.05am

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 8.41pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm

Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why?

Yes.
We're not geared to house more, feed more, educate more or nurse more.
But as long as the rich get richer................

I the rich get poorer, will that make the poorer get richer?

Well the rich can generally afford to get poorer, where as the poor certainly can't. The problem often is we set the bar of rich, very low. Someone bringing in less than 100k a year in total isn't rich.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Oct 15 11.38am
Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am I can't help but see this as an opportunistic response to the new rhetoric of the opposition. By once more pushing immigration to the front of political debate, Cameron is able to disregard the fact that we are seeing the largest fall in living standards in a century, a further cut in income for the poorest in society via cuts to tax credits, house prices at an all-time high while house building is at a 50 year low. For Teresa May to have the cheek to come out and blame migration on issues from transport to low pay is an astonishing piece of calculated deceit. What's playing a bigger role in the highest train fares in Europe, some Syrian asylum seekers or the fact that private railway firms' shareholders are walking away with the hundreds of billions of profits they make instead of reinvesting it? Is it the extra 30 000 extra migrants' fault that we are the most unequal and least socially mobile country in Europe, or is it perhaps due to governments like ours who have overseen an economy where the majority of people in poverty are actually in work? I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co. Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am) This isn't true...low wages are the result of many factors, including the decline of trade unions, the rise of zero hours contracts & the pursuit of a "flexible" labour force designed to boost profits rather than wages. The housing crisis has been around since the Tories stopped building council houses in the 1980's. Neither have been caused by immigration. Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble. Mine too. The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer? Good work if you can get it. Without a doubt. It's so easy to get people foaming at the mouth over people who look a bit different or sound a bit different. Many get enraged and red faced as they talk about the EU. Fine, I have no love for it either. At the same time though these very same people don't know the first thing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership for instance, something we're bound to get sucked into. A corporate coup in the offing and not a word said about it. It must be nice to be wealthy enough to brainwash the masses. Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why? Second warning.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Oct 15 11.38am

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Oct 2015 8.12pm

Quote oldcodger at 07 Oct 2015 7.43pm

Quote -TUX- at 07 Oct 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Oct 2015 7.02pm

Quote Red Al at 07 Oct 2015 7.00pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote serial thriller at 06 Oct 2015 9.05am

I look forward to the Tory split on the EU referendum that hopefully spells the beginning of the end for Osbourne and co.

Unlimited immigration has been a leading factor in low wages and the housing crisis. All parties will be split on the EU (except the half a dozen members of the Lib

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Oct 2015 9.15am)

Immigration is being used in part as a smokescreen in my humble.

Mine too.
The country is in crisis yet the rich continue to get richer?
Good work if you can get it.

Do you think immigration should be limited in any way? If so, why?

Second warning....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 11.34am
Made me chuckle... Attachment: 12208626_10153799665429255_1681904071025245533_n.jpg (21.21Kb)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 11.34am

Made me chuckle...

Attachment: 12208626_10153799665429255_1681904071025245533_n.jpg (21.21Kb)

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Feb 16 12.42pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Made me chuckle... Yes I'm sure all those people who have seen their annual wage rises slashed and those who can't afford to buy their first house will find that hilarious. Well done.
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Feb 16 12.42pm

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by nickgusset

Made me chuckle...

Yes I'm sure all those people who have seen their annual wage rises slashed and those who can't afford to buy their first house will find that hilarious.

Well done.

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