F#ck off Nigel...

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F#ck off Nigel...

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Stuk Top half 06 May 15 2.08pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS. National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs). If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield. Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access. I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 06 May 15 2.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs).

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.

Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access.

I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals.

Optimistic as ever

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npn Crowborough 06 May 15 2.15pm
Quote dannyh at 06 May 2015 1.31pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.52pm Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 5.00pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 4.10pm Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 3.30pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 2.25pm Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 1.59pm Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm I'm not voting UKIP. I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views. If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate. Yes but why let facts and common sense rule, when you can claim anyone who even knows how to spell Farage is a foaming at the mouth jack boot wearing Nazi. As far as I can see: he wants out of Europe ( no bad thing ) Tighter controls on immigration (something both Labour and Tory Governments have promised much on but have delivered little). Wants more money spent on the Armed Forces not less( no brainer for those that know) Wants to improve by the NHS by putting a stop to NHS tourism. Have I missed the bit where he wants burning crosses at the end of every street where Johnny Foreigner lives. Some people on here are so up them selves they can literally lick their own tonsils. Edited by dannyh (05 May 2015 2.00pm) This perception interests me, as its not actually entirely accurate. Both the Conservatives and previous Labour governments pursued and implemented policy restrictions on immigration and citizenship that were tough, and arguably very close to restrictive. The problem is really with temporary EU migrant workers - and really only after the economic downturn (prior to that no one really cared that the woman making sandwiches in the canteen had Masters and was from Poland). The issue, is of course that a large part of the UK economy is entirely dependent on a) foreign investment b) a cheap EU labour force. UKIP can promise to end all that, because they don't have to ever do it. If Labour or the Conservatives make the same promise and win, then they actually have to shoot the UK economy in the head, over an issue that's really more 'ideological' due to the current economic situation, than anything else. Taking the migrant labour out of the question means jobs either go abroad, or the wages rise, which means costs rise, which results people being worse off, overall, and the government getting the blame. And then if growth does recover to a pre-2010 level, they'd need to rediscover that labour. If your UKIP (or the Greens) you can promise to do all manner of things that are economic suicide, but are popular, because you'll never get called on it. Unless of course you're the Lib Dems, who promised all kinds of things at the last election, and then got crucified by their own supporters for compromising them to form a coalition government (and now are likely to take more of a battering than a member of the Barrymore swim club). Tighter controls on immagration is not fiscal suicide at all, Australia seem to be doing fine. And there also not part of the Euro Disaster. Thing is JM I'm not going to get booged down in a financial debate, it is long winded and boring, but your above post is just "scare mongering" as anything printed by the mail, or the Grauniad. I will say this though on finances, the next country to go bust in the Eurozone (Spain most likely)will get the last of the bale out money, then what ? Greece have basically all but said f* you to the Germans. Thank christ the Tories kept the pound, or we'd be in just as big a pile of shyte as Germany who are owed billions with no chance of getting it back. Australia also isn't in a position where its actively pursuing policy that would essentially mean a large part of the work force would be 'ineligible to work in the UK' which UKIP is pushing. Not it is not, that is just made up bollicks, what UKIP ARE saying is that they want british jobs for British people, no matter what ethinicity you are. And for your information the Ozzies are far tougher on immagration than we are. Some of UKIPs policies I agree with. I want to see the removal of imported competition for low skilled work, but I also want to see those jobs filled by workers, on a decent living wage. That is the floor in the European free market, people with low standards of living in countries like Poland and Romania come to the UK work for Peanuts, send the money home, keeping the low wage down if there wasnt the people to pay low wages too, then the wage would go up, simple supply and demand economics. The NHS 'tourism' issue is something that should be addressed, providing the costs of doing so aren't restrictive (the NHS isn't really set up to do this - and the last attempt to set the NHS up for that level of infrastructure management was a disaster). Only because there are to many managers instigated by Labour who went Quango mad on the NHS, the management ( I use the term losely) needs gutting, and with NI numbers the Government already has the info it needs to start issuing NHS cards as photo ID. The cost would be negligable against the amount that would be saved. It may even stop people turning up at AE departments with a fing cold for christ sake, if they think they have to admit who they are first. UKIP are like the Lib Dems, it was easy when they didn't have to deliver to their supporters. Once they did, they failed because they'd promised 'impossible dreams'. And just how has UKIP failed by becoming (according to most poles) the third biggest party in local elections, I agree in the Kilroy Silk days they were seen as a bit of a joke, not so much these days, with the Tories seemingly open to a coalition to gain a majority. I'm not against a private NHS, Germany and France, both have a Private Health Care System, which is more effective and efficient than our own - Its about how you do it. No it is not. I lived in Germany for 4 years and the waiting times are bloody horrendous, I waited in an empty waiting room for 3 hours with my young daughter in agony with a dislocated elbow. The NHS should be a shinning beacon to the rest of the world, but it is chronically understaffed and has been mis-managed by a bunch of ftards for at least the last twenty to thirty years. That said, I've got no idea who I'm going to vote for. Probably it'll be Green on the basis of their drug policy. You'd have to be a crack head to vote for those eco nutters Lol. I'm all for the idea of jobs for the British, what I haven't really seen is actually how UKIP plan to make that work, without it either resulting in a hike in wages (and thus costs to the consumer) or cost to the taxpayer in relocating people to fill the presumed vacancies. A governments first duty should always be to the people it represents. However it should also be pragmatic and responsible in how it goes about it - and UPFRONT about how its going to achieve it. More importantly, in UKIPs case, that in doing so it won't actually result in greater problems. Ideals are all well and good, but pragmatism is essential. Radical changes rarely end well. UKIP, like the Greens, are attracting supporters because they're protest votes. Neither are even remotely capable of delivering on their manifesto without sinking the nation into a pit of financial catastrophe. But they don't have to be. They won't have to deliver. But essentially is there any real difference in not having to, and saying you will keep promises and then nbreaking them Both scenarios end up with the same result nothing changes. And until one of the other parties wins a bucket of seats nothing will change, but the greens ? FFS Jamie lad come on I mean does anyone believe millipeed, that just because he's put his parties catch phrases and by words on a stone slab that we will believe the adanoidal buffon** ? Anyway come what may, it will be interesting and I daresay humerous watching the lack of votes come in, and the general apathy of tomorrow. Edited by dannyh (06 May 2015 1.35pm) Didn't one of his assitants come straight out and say "of course, just because we have carved it in stone doesn't mean we'll be able to do all of them" or something similar. One day they'll understand that nobody believes a word they spew any more - hence the low turn outs
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npn

Crowborough 06 May 15 2.15pm

Quote dannyh at 06 May 2015 1.31pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.52pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 5.00pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 4.10pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 3.30pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 May 2015 2.25pm

Quote dannyh at 05 May 2015 1.59pm

Quote npn at 05 May 2015 1.46pm

I'm not voting UKIP.

I am amazed, however, that a lot of people I know (particularly left-leaning ones, to be fair) seem totally disgusted by them. I had to step into one of those pointless Facebook battles when someone posted that UKIP and their supporters are a disgrace. It seems everyone is in favour of free speech, provided the person speaking agrees with their views.

If you don't like UKIP, don't vote for them. Pretty simple. Shouting them down and referring to them as a disgrace, and even trying to associate them with the BNP because of some spurious, vague, and not even verified, assertion that Griffin will be voting for them (he's a far-right person, natural he's going to vote for the furthest right candidate, surely? Just like Mao would probably vote TUSC because they are the closest aligned to his own ideal, not because those ideals are the same) is surely a very poor effort at debate.

Yes but why let facts and common sense rule, when you can claim anyone who even knows how to spell Farage is a foaming at the mouth jack boot wearing Nazi.

As far as I can see:

he wants out of Europe ( no bad thing )
Tighter controls on immigration (something both Labour and Tory Governments have promised much on but have delivered little).
Wants more money spent on the Armed Forces not less( no brainer for those that know)
Wants to improve by the NHS by putting a stop to NHS tourism.

Have I missed the bit where he wants burning crosses at the end of every street where Johnny Foreigner lives.

Some people on here are so up them selves they can literally lick their own tonsils.

Edited by dannyh (05 May 2015 2.00pm)

This perception interests me, as its not actually entirely accurate. Both the Conservatives and previous Labour governments pursued and implemented policy restrictions on immigration and citizenship that were tough, and arguably very close to restrictive.

The problem is really with temporary EU migrant workers - and really only after the economic downturn (prior to that no one really cared that the woman making sandwiches in the canteen had Masters and was from Poland).

The issue, is of course that a large part of the UK economy is entirely dependent on a) foreign investment b) a cheap EU labour force.

UKIP can promise to end all that, because they don't have to ever do it. If Labour or the Conservatives make the same promise and win, then they actually have to shoot the UK economy in the head, over an issue that's really more 'ideological' due to the current economic situation, than anything else.

Taking the migrant labour out of the question means jobs either go abroad, or the wages rise, which means costs rise, which results people being worse off, overall, and the government getting the blame.

And then if growth does recover to a pre-2010 level, they'd need to rediscover that labour.

If your UKIP (or the Greens) you can promise to do all manner of things that are economic suicide, but are popular, because you'll never get called on it.

Unless of course you're the Lib Dems, who promised all kinds of things at the last election, and then got crucified by their own supporters for compromising them to form a coalition government (and now are likely to take more of a battering than a member of the Barrymore swim club).

Tighter controls on immagration is not fiscal suicide at all, Australia seem to be doing fine. And there also not part of the Euro Disaster.

Thing is JM I'm not going to get booged down in a financial debate, it is long winded and boring, but your above post is just "scare mongering" as anything printed by the mail, or the Grauniad.

I will say this though on finances, the next country to go bust in the Eurozone (Spain most likely)will get the last of the bale out money, then what ? Greece have basically all but said f*** you to the Germans. Thank christ the Tories kept the pound, or we'd be in just as big a pile of shyte as Germany who are owed billions with no chance of getting it back.

Australia also isn't in a position where its actively pursuing policy that would essentially mean a large part of the work force would be 'ineligible to work in the UK' which UKIP is pushing.

Not it is not, that is just made up bollicks, what UKIP ARE saying is that they want british jobs for British people, no matter what ethinicity you are. And for your information the Ozzies are far tougher on immagration than we are.

Some of UKIPs policies I agree with. I want to see the removal of imported competition for low skilled work, but I also want to see those jobs filled by workers, on a decent living wage.

That is the floor in the European free market, people with low standards of living in countries like Poland and Romania come to the UK work for Peanuts, send the money home, keeping the low wage down if there wasnt the people to pay low wages too, then the wage would go up, simple supply and demand economics.

The NHS 'tourism' issue is something that should be addressed, providing the costs of doing so aren't restrictive (the NHS isn't really set up to do this - and the last attempt to set the NHS up for that level of infrastructure management was a disaster).

Only because there are to many managers instigated by Labour who went Quango mad on the NHS, the management ( I use the term losely) needs gutting, and with NI numbers the Government already has the info it needs to start issuing NHS cards as photo ID. The cost would be negligable against the amount that would be saved. It may even stop people turning up at AE departments with a f***ing cold for christ sake, if they think they have to admit who they are first.

UKIP are like the Lib Dems, it was easy when they didn't have to deliver to their supporters. Once they did, they failed because they'd promised 'impossible dreams'.

And just how has UKIP failed by becoming (according to most poles) the third biggest party in local elections, I agree in the Kilroy Silk days they were seen as a bit of a joke, not so much these days, with the Tories seemingly open to a coalition to gain a majority.

I'm not against a private NHS, Germany and France, both have a Private Health Care System, which is more effective and efficient than our own - Its about how you do it.

No it is not. I lived in Germany for 4 years and the waiting times are bloody horrendous, I waited in an empty waiting room for 3 hours with my young daughter in agony with a dislocated elbow. The NHS should be a shinning beacon to the rest of the world, but it is chronically understaffed and has been mis-managed by a bunch of f***tards for at least the last twenty to thirty years.

That said, I've got no idea who I'm going to vote for. Probably it'll be Green on the basis of their drug policy.

You'd have to be a crack head to vote for those eco nutters

Lol.

I'm all for the idea of jobs for the British, what I haven't really seen is actually how UKIP plan to make that work, without it either resulting in a hike in wages (and thus costs to the consumer) or cost to the taxpayer in relocating people to fill the presumed vacancies.

A governments first duty should always be to the people it represents. However it should also be pragmatic and responsible in how it goes about it - and UPFRONT about how its going to achieve it.

More importantly, in UKIPs case, that in doing so it won't actually result in greater problems. Ideals are all well and good, but pragmatism is essential. Radical changes rarely end well.

UKIP, like the Greens, are attracting supporters because they're protest votes. Neither are even remotely capable of delivering on their manifesto without sinking the nation into a pit of financial catastrophe.

But they don't have to be. They won't have to deliver.

But essentially is there any real difference in not having to, and saying you will keep promises and then nbreaking them Both scenarios end up with the same result nothing changes.

And until one of the other parties wins a bucket of seats nothing will change, but the greens ? FFS Jamie lad come on

I mean does anyone believe millipeed, that just because he's put his parties catch phrases and by words on a stone slab that we will believe the adanoidal buffon ?

Anyway come what may, it will be interesting and I daresay humerous watching the lack of votes come in, and the general apathy of tomorrow.

Edited by dannyh (06 May 2015 1.35pm)

Didn't one of his assitants come straight out and say "of course, just because we have carved it in stone doesn't mean we'll be able to do all of them" or something similar.

One day they'll understand that nobody believes a word they spew any more - hence the low turn outs

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 06 May 15 2.32pm
Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS. National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs). If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield. Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access. I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals. I understand the sentiment of treating sick people come what may and in emergencey type situations. However if I was to say bust my leg skiing in Austria, unless I had adequate Health cover, the cost of getting me down the mountain, and into plaster is fecking mahhosive, so what do we do, we pay throughthe nose for insurance., or dont go skiing its that simple. What boils my piss, is people coming to the UK with no health cover what so ever, and getting all the medical stuff they need for fcuk all apart from the cost of getting here. There are even companies specifically set up to cater for health tourism. No other country on the globe is as softer touch as we are when it comes to free health care. All I think Farage is saying is no more, it's not sustainable if we want the NHS to stay in its current guise. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 06 May 15 2.32pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.

Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access.

I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals.

I understand the sentiment of treating sick people come what may and in emergencey type situations. However if I was to say bust my leg skiing in Austria, unless I had adequate Health cover, the cost of getting me down the mountain, and into plaster is fecking mahhosive, so what do we do, we pay throughthe nose for insurance., or dont go skiing its that simple.

What boils my piss, is people coming to the UK with no health cover what so ever, and getting all the medical stuff they need for fcuk all apart from the cost of getting here.

There are even companies specifically set up to cater for health tourism. No other country on the globe is as softer touch as we are when it comes to free health care. All I think Farage is saying is no more, it's not sustainable if we want the NHS to stay in its current guise.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Mapletree Croydon 06 May 15 2.47pm
Really don't recommend letting your p*ss boil, you will be hospitalised AND WE WILL HAVE TO PAY!. Apparently twice as many 'health tourists' pay than don't pay, and they pay lots. Cost to treat free-loaders £60m to £80m, income from paying visitors appears to be way more but nobody can count it. Overall the UK is a net exporter of patients, with 63,000 travelling abroad for treatment. Don't know how many paid, those with an EHIC shouldn't have had to. I suggest a foley catheter and some nice cooling balm.
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Mapletree

Croydon 06 May 15 2.47pm

Really don't recommend letting your p*ss boil, you will be hospitalised AND WE WILL HAVE TO PAY!.

Apparently twice as many 'health tourists' pay than don't pay, and they pay lots. Cost to treat free-loaders £60m to £80m, income from paying visitors appears to be way more but nobody can count it. Overall the UK is a net exporter of patients, with 63,000 travelling abroad for treatment. Don't know how many paid, those with an EHIC shouldn't have had to.

I suggest a foley catheter and some nice cooling balm.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 May 15 3.12pm
Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS. National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs). If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield. Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access. I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals. Which they won't pay, because they'll realize that the time and effort of taking them to court and then enforcing that via international law is ludicrously difficult and expensive. Enforcement would be almost impossible to achieve. Its hard enough to get your money back through civil claims against someone in the UK, let alone someone in another country. And I don't imagine too many foreign countries would be overly enthusiastic in pursuing their nationals for the money. It might be possible if you could arrange payment via medical insurance companies. Realistically, the only way it could work is an undertaking between nations to pay for health care of nationals abroad that are not paying local taxation and national insurance. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 06 May 15 3.12pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.

Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access.

I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals.

Which they won't pay, because they'll realize that the time and effort of taking them to court and then enforcing that via international law is ludicrously difficult and expensive. Enforcement would be almost impossible to achieve. Its hard enough to get your money back through civil claims against someone in the UK, let alone someone in another country. And I don't imagine too many foreign countries would be overly enthusiastic in pursuing their nationals for the money.

It might be possible if you could arrange payment via medical insurance companies.

Realistically, the only way it could work is an undertaking between nations to pay for health care of nationals abroad that are not paying local taxation and national insurance.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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CJ York 06 May 15 3.24pm
Taylors Lovechild........hehehehehehehehe Make you right though !!!! Bleed Claret & Blue THEN Red & Blue!!!!!
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York 06 May 15 3.24pm

Taylors Lovechild........hehehehehehehehe
Make you right though !!!!

Bleed Claret & Blue THEN Red & Blue!!!!!

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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 May 15 3.27pm
Quote dannyh at 06 May 2015 2.32pm Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS. National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs). If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield. Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access. I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals. I understand the sentiment of treating sick people come what may and in emergencey type situations. However if I was to say bust my leg skiing in Austria, unless I had adequate Health cover, the cost of getting me down the mountain, and into plaster is fecking mahhosive, so what do we do, we pay throughthe nose for insurance., or dont go skiing its that simple. As an NHS Patient you're legally entitled to treatment in any EEA state, and automatically entitled to emergency health care under the EIHC. You can in fact travel abroad for all manner of health care which the NHS will pay for (and its your legal right to do so, although pre-approval may be required). Without pre-approval the expectation of the EU Directive is that you will be expected to pay for the treatment, and then reclaim it from the NHS. In reality, of course, no one is going to stop you from leaving, and you probably don't have 40k kicking around to pay for the treatment anyhow. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 06 May 15 3.27pm

Quote dannyh at 06 May 2015 2.32pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.

Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access.

I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals.

As an NHS Patient you're legally entitled to treatment in any EEA state, and automatically entitled to emergency health care under the EIHC.

You can in fact travel abroad for all manner of health care which the NHS will pay for (and its your legal right to do so, although pre-approval may be required). Without pre-approval the expectation of the EU Directive is that you will be expected to pay for the treatment, and then reclaim it from the NHS.

In reality, of course, no one is going to stop you from leaving, and you probably don't have 40k kicking around to pay for the treatment anyhow.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 May 15 3.28pm
Quote Mapletree at 06 May 2015 2.47pm Really don't recommend letting your p*ss boil, you will be hospitalised AND WE WILL HAVE TO PAY!. Apparently twice as many 'health tourists' pay than don't pay, and they pay lots. Cost to treat free-loaders £60m to £80m, income from paying visitors appears to be way more but nobody can count it. Overall the UK is a net exporter of patients, with 63,000 travelling abroad for treatment. Don't know how many paid, those with an EHIC shouldn't have had to. I suggest a foley catheter and some nice cooling balm. None of them, in the EEA. EIHC doesn't cover non-emergency care - the NHS takes care of that. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 06 May 15 3.28pm

Quote Mapletree at 06 May 2015 2.47pm

Really don't recommend letting your p*ss boil, you will be hospitalised AND WE WILL HAVE TO PAY!.

I suggest a foley catheter and some nice cooling balm.

None of them, in the EEA. EIHC doesn't cover non-emergency care - the NHS takes care of that.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stuk Top half 06 May 15 3.50pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 3.12pm Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS. National ID cards, worked out so well the last time that was proposed. You should have an NHS ID number anyway, the problem isn't really with the treatment, its with the infrastructure and systems by which they're recorded, invoiced to the host nation and funds are collected (based on the assorted insurance schemes of those nations or health care programs). If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield. Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access. I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals. Which they won't pay, because they'll realize that the time and effort of taking them to court and then enforcing that via international law is ludicrously difficult and expensive. Enforcement would be almost impossible to achieve. Its hard enough to get your money back through civil claims against someone in the UK, let alone someone in another country. And I don't imagine too many foreign countries would be overly enthusiastic in pursuing their nationals for the money. It might be possible if you could arrange payment via medical insurance companies. Realistically, the only way it could work is an undertaking between nations to pay for health care of nationals abroad that are not paying local taxation and national insurance. Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs. It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail. Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street? Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 06 May 15 3.50pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 3.12pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 2.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 12.45pm

Quote Stuk at 05 May 2015 4.17pm

Wouldn't be hard to make NI cards (which we all have) into photo ID for the NHS.

If it was as easy as sending an invoice to Accounts Payable, Nigeria. Its a minefield.

Yeah but these wouldn't be mandatory. I'm pretty sure the uptake wouild be high though if it meant no NHS access.

I'm talking accidents only. Long term illness you can go home and get treated. Not invoicing nations either, it would be the individuals.

It might be possible if you could arrange payment via medical insurance companies.

Realistically, the only way it could work is an undertaking between nations to pay for health care of nationals abroad that are not paying local taxation and national insurance.

Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs.

It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail.

Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street?

Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 May 15 4.13pm
Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 3.50pm Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs. It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail. Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street? How do people get out of the detention center, if they can't pay the bills (which will be 10s or 100s of thousands of pounds). Its not like they going to earn more money then. I'm sure the UK tourism industry would welcome such a draconian measure such as indefinite imprisonment of foreign nationals, without trial for having the temerity to be injured or get sick whilst in the UK and require medical care. Pretty sure it doesn't work that way for us either, certainly isn't my experience, although that was Europe and minor (my girlfriend broke her ankle in Spain, it costs her absolutely nothing). Bound to be popular with other nations as well, the whole kidknapping their nationals etc. All seems like a lot of effort, expense and disasterous embracing of totalitarianism over a few 100m or so. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 06 May 15 4.13pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 3.50pm

Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs.

It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail.

Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street?

How do people get out of the detention center, if they can't pay the bills (which will be 10s or 100s of thousands of pounds). Its not like they going to earn more money then.

I'm sure the UK tourism industry would welcome such a draconian measure such as indefinite imprisonment of foreign nationals, without trial for having the temerity to be injured or get sick whilst in the UK and require medical care.

Pretty sure it doesn't work that way for us either, certainly isn't my experience, although that was Europe and minor (my girlfriend broke her ankle in Spain, it costs her absolutely nothing).

Bound to be popular with other nations as well, the whole kidknapping their nationals etc.

All seems like a lot of effort, expense and disasterous embracing of totalitarianism over a few 100m or so.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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rcmeagle Bromley 06 May 15 4.37pm
Quote PsychoPaul at 02 May 2015 9.33am Quote taylors lovechild at 02 May 2015 8.16am Well, our team sheet will be a bit thin if he has any influence over the team sheet. Exactly! He's just a milder version of Nick Griffin. Sorry brother but that is absolute rubbish. Nigel Farage is not a racist it’s morons like you and your friends that damage free speech. Mass emigration is good for the economy only because it drives wages through the floor, thus the people at the top are laughing all the way to the bank. We keep hearing how strong our economy is but life is and pay is getting worse for millions of people. The idea that British people wouldn’t do the jobs is rubbish, they can’t afford to. The majority of workers from abroad are living in house shares in rubbish conditions, 8 or 9 people in a 3 bedroom sending all the money back home, one day they will walk away to early retirement with a house and a nice retirement pot in their home countries. Where as for the English people earning minimum wage in London those horrible living conditions are not a means to an end they are just life for the long term. I am placed in a unique position as I have a lot of close friends from the Slovak and polish communities due to work. My good friend has been here for 10 years in that time he has had himself a house built in Slovakia and saved up enough money to retire by the time he is 40 and go and live the good life back home, all this on a wage that you couldn’t even rent a one bedroom flat with in and around London. Labour opened up the doors to mass emigration and knowing the backlash it would cause they cooked up a campaign which made even brining the issue up very controversial with words like racist being bounced around. This was admitted by the man who made a lot of the race relations laws and was a figure head behind this campaign his name is Trevor Phillips. He now admits they got it wrong and regrets it. People feel gagged by fear of being accused of being racist. The only thing I wish farage did more was make clear the a@@holes that are exploiting the immigrants and driving wages way down through the floor are the ones we should be focusing on not the people that are coming here to create a better life for them and their families. Because after all that’s what we all want , the best life possible. But the middle class don’t care because it’s not affecting them people that say stuff like’’ it’s good because I can get my house painted for half the price’’ yet they would be the first moaning if their wages were driven though the floor and their quality of life went down the toilet.
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rcmeagle

Bromley 06 May 15 4.37pm

Quote PsychoPaul at 02 May 2015 9.33am

Quote taylors lovechild at 02 May 2015 8.16am

Well, our team sheet will be a bit thin if he has any influence over the team sheet.

Exactly! He's just a milder version of Nick Griffin.

Sorry brother but that is absolute rubbish. Nigel Farage is not a racist it’s morons like you and your friends that damage free speech. Mass emigration is good for the economy only because it drives wages through the floor, thus the people at the top are laughing all the way to the bank. We keep hearing how strong our economy is but life is and pay is getting worse for millions of people. The idea that British people wouldn’t do the jobs is rubbish, they can’t afford to. The majority of workers from abroad are living in house shares in rubbish conditions, 8 or 9 people in a 3 bedroom sending all the money back home, one day they will walk away to early retirement with a house and a nice retirement pot in their home countries. Where as for the English people earning minimum wage in London those horrible living conditions are not a means to an end they are just life for the long term. I am placed in a unique position as I have a lot of close friends from the Slovak and polish communities due to work. My good friend has been here for 10 years in that time he has had himself a house built in Slovakia and saved up enough money to retire by the time he is 40 and go and live the good life back home, all this on a wage that you couldn’t even rent a one bedroom flat with in and around London. Labour opened up the doors to mass emigration and knowing the backlash it would cause they cooked up a campaign which made even brining the issue up very controversial with words like racist being bounced around. This was admitted by the man who made a lot of the race relations laws and was a figure head behind this campaign his name is Trevor Phillips. He now admits they got it wrong and regrets it. People feel gagged by fear of being accused of being racist. The only thing I wish farage did more was make clear the a@@holes that are exploiting the immigrants and driving wages way down through the floor are the ones we should be focusing on not the people that are coming here to create a better life for them and their families. Because after all that’s what we all want , the best life possible. But the middle class don’t care because it’s not affecting them people that say stuff like’’ it’s good because I can get my house painted for half the price’’ yet they would be the first moaning if their wages were driven though the floor and their quality of life went down the toilet.

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Stuk Top half 06 May 15 4.46pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 4.13pm Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 3.50pm Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs. It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail. Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street? How do people get out of the detention center, if they can't pay the bills (which will be 10s or 100s of thousands of pounds). Its not like they going to earn more money then. I'm sure the UK tourism industry would welcome such a draconian measure such as indefinite imprisonment of foreign nationals, without trial for having the temerity to be injured or get sick whilst in the UK and require medical care. Pretty sure it doesn't work that way for us either, certainly isn't my experience, although that was Europe and minor (my girlfriend broke her ankle in Spain, it costs her absolutely nothing). Bound to be popular with other nations as well, the whole kidknapping their nationals etc. All seems like a lot of effort, expense and disasterous embracing of totalitarianism over a few 100m or so. It's future prevention. Make people think twice about coming over for a quick op and then being able to f*** off home without paying. It's not the temerity to get sick or injured while here, but to not pay their dues. That's is how it works for us where we aren't entitled, of which our own governments have made mutliple adverts to warn us. And from January 2015. "A British couple are stranded in New York with a £130,000 medical bill after their baby son was born 11 weeks prematurely while they were on a four-day getaway." Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 06 May 15 4.46pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 May 2015 4.13pm

Quote Stuk at 06 May 2015 3.50pm

Bollocks to all that, you pay or you lose all your possesions and go to a deportation centre until settled. No civil claims or relying on foreign institutes to chase payment or reclaim costs.

It'll work as it does for us when abroad, as dannyh eluded to, and anyone who wants to try it on can go to deportation centre/jail.

Our debts don't even get written off at death, they go to the next of kin, so why shouldn't it be a two way street?

How do people get out of the detention center, if they can't pay the bills (which will be 10s or 100s of thousands of pounds). Its not like they going to earn more money then.

Pretty sure it doesn't work that way for us either, certainly isn't my experience, although that was Europe and minor (my girlfriend broke her ankle in Spain, it costs her absolutely nothing).

Bound to be popular with other nations as well, the whole kidknapping their nationals etc.

All seems like a lot of effort, expense and disasterous embracing of totalitarianism over a few 100m or so.

It's future prevention. Make people think twice about coming over for a quick op and then being able to f*** off home without paying.

It's not the temerity to get sick or injured while here, but to not pay their dues.

That's is how it works for us where we aren't entitled, of which our own governments have made mutliple adverts to warn us.

And from January 2015.
"A British couple are stranded in New York with a £130,000 medical bill after their baby son was born 11 weeks prematurely while they were on a four-day getaway."

Optimistic as ever

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