2024 General Election

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2024 General Election

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 24 3.03pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We were never going to join a Federal Europe. That was always blatant scaremongering. Other countries might, but not us, nor some others. It would have to be under a separate arrangement. If Europe is getting weaker then I wish we were too! They have problems. Everyone does as a result of international events and the pandemic but their strength in numbers will see them through much more surely than we will alone. And you know this how? Anyone in the EU has to conform. We would have had no choice if we remained a member. We have done the wise thing and got out early.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jun 24 3.03pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We were never going to join a Federal Europe. That was always blatant scaremongering. Other countries might, but not us, nor some others. It would have to be under a separate arrangement.

If Europe is getting weaker then I wish we were too! They have problems. Everyone does as a result of international events and the pandemic but their strength in numbers will see them through much more surely than we will alone.

And you know this how?

Anyone in the EU has to conform. We would have had no choice if we remained a member.

We have done the wise thing and got out early.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 3.04pm
Originally posted by JRW2 Okay, not of the highest importance in the great scheme of things, but taking your words to mean what they say, I offer: The right we now have not to export live farmed animals for slaughter, and the right of insurers to use gender as one their criteria in setting premiums. You are certainly right that they aren't very important. Some would make the case that they aren't improvements either. Are you certain that they couldn't have been controlled via local laws or by negotiation with Brussels if considered necessary? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 3.04pm

Originally posted by JRW2

Okay, not of the highest importance in the great scheme of things, but taking your words to mean what they say, I offer:

The right we now have not to export live farmed animals for slaughter, and the right of insurers to use gender as one their criteria in setting premiums.

You are certainly right that they aren't very important. Some would make the case that they aren't improvements either.

Are you certain that they couldn't have been controlled via local laws or by negotiation with Brussels if considered necessary?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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YT Oxford 22 Jun 24 3.07pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'Britain has become the 51st state of the USA, led by a senile dementia patient' - Galloway. No doubt into WW3 if they bother to inform us. When it does break out we will be focussed on such important matters as whether VAT is paid on knob's schools or whether an MP has paid tax on her council house. A conspiracy of silence exists, not only in the Tory and Labour parties, but also the British media, over Gaza and Brexit. It's fun to see them squirm but it's also pathetic. Which knob are you talking about and how many schools does he (or 'they') attend? Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 22 Jun 24 3.07pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'Britain has become the 51st state of the USA, led by a senile dementia patient' - Galloway.

No doubt into WW3 if they bother to inform us.

When it does break out we will be focussed on such important matters as whether VAT is paid on knob's schools or whether an MP has paid tax on her council house.

A conspiracy of silence exists, not only in the Tory and Labour parties, but also the British media, over Gaza and Brexit.

It's fun to see them squirm but it's also pathetic.

Which knob are you talking about and how many schools does he (or 'they') attend?

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 3.09pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And you know this how? Anyone in the EU has to conform. We would have had no choice if we remained a member. We have done the wise thing and got out early. That's simply untrue. Successive governments stated from the time of Thatcher onwards that the UK would not join a Federal arrangement. Such a matter not being one that could be imposed on us by qualified majority voting. We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 3.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And you know this how?

Anyone in the EU has to conform. We would have had no choice if we remained a member.

We have done the wise thing and got out early.

That's simply untrue. Successive governments stated from the time of Thatcher onwards that the UK would not join a Federal arrangement. Such a matter not being one that could be imposed on us by qualified majority voting.

We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 22 Jun 24 3.16pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's simply untrue. Successive governments stated from the time of Thatcher onwards that the UK would not join a Federal arrangement. Such a matter not being one that could be imposed on us by qualified majority voting. We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties. How do YOU know it's untrue? Do YOU have proof to the contrary? This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 22 Jun 24 3.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties.

How do YOU know it's untrue? Do YOU have proof to the contrary?

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 24 3.25pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's simply untrue. Successive governments stated from the time of Thatcher onwards that the UK would not join a Federal arrangement. Such a matter not being one that could be imposed on us by qualified majority voting. We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties. You make it up as you go along. At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility. I'd say it was a certainty. You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth? I know you would toe the line. Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jun 24 3.25pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We would not have to have conformed. No one would even try to ask us to. Any such arrangement would almost certainly happen outside, but alongside the current Treaties.

You make it up as you go along.

At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility.
I'd say it was a certainty.

You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth?

I know you would toe the line.
Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard.

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Stirlingsays 22 Jun 24 3.31pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You make it up as you go along. At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility. I'd say it was a certainty. You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth? I know you would toe the line. Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard. Very true. They don't do these things in the open and then announce that it's the inevitable consequence of the direction of travel. Just how many of us remember Blair saying stuff like this. That we had to accept certain outcomes because they were inevitable. Most lying is done by omission and motivations that aren't advantages for politicians won't be announced by them....but it doesn't stop them working towards it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Jun 24 3.31pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You make it up as you go along.

At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility.
I'd say it was a certainty.

You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth?

I know you would toe the line.
Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard.

Very true.

They don't do these things in the open and then announce that it's the inevitable consequence of the direction of travel.

Just how many of us remember Blair saying stuff like this. That we had to accept certain outcomes because they were inevitable.

Most lying is done by omission and motivations that aren't advantages for politicians won't be announced by them....but it doesn't stop them working towards it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.32pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 How do YOU know it's untrue? Do YOU have proof to the contrary? It’s obviously untrue! Somethings are self evident. A change of that magnitude requires a treaty. New treaties only pass with unanimity. We have always opposed such a concept so it could not pass. Any arrangements between individual states would therefore need to be outside the EU treaties. This would result in the widely predicted 2 speed Europe model. Thatcher was implacably opposed. Her Bruges speech setting the tone for the UK position:- [Link] She was even stronger later:- [Link] The years since Thatcher were characterised by an endless debate between the hardline Eurosceptics and the more pragmatic realists, but nobody entertained the idea of a deeper integration. The move was always the other way, ending up with Brexit. Even during the Blair years there was no suggestion that such a move would ever be accepted. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.32pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

How do YOU know it's untrue? Do YOU have proof to the contrary?

It’s obviously untrue! Somethings are self evident. A change of that magnitude requires a treaty. New treaties only pass with unanimity. We have always opposed such a concept so it could not pass. Any arrangements between individual states would therefore need to be outside the EU treaties. This would result in the widely predicted 2 speed Europe model.

Thatcher was implacably opposed. Her Bruges speech setting the tone for the UK position:-

[Link]

She was even stronger later:-

[Link]

The years since Thatcher were characterised by an endless debate between the hardline Eurosceptics and the more pragmatic realists, but nobody entertained the idea of a deeper integration. The move was always the other way, ending up with Brexit. Even during the Blair years there was no suggestion that such a move would ever be accepted.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You make it up as you go along. At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility. I'd say it was a certainty. You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth? I know you would toe the line. Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard. I have never discounted the possibility of some European countries developing closer political and economic ties. But not the entire EU. The concept of an inner core of closer countries, Germany, France, Belgium, possibly The Netherlands and Austria and an outer circle of northern and southern countries, has been suggested for at least 40 years. We would never join that inner core. It would be an anathema to our democratic traditions and culture. There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You make it up as you go along.

At least you are finally admitting that a federal Europe is a possibility.
I'd say it was a certainty.

You trust politicians to be honest? You think that these things don't happen by stealth?

I know you would toe the line.
Maybe you broke your toe by doing it a little too hard.

I have never discounted the possibility of some European countries developing closer political and economic ties. But not the entire EU. The concept of an inner core of closer countries, Germany, France, Belgium, possibly The Netherlands and Austria and an outer circle of northern and southern countries, has been suggested for at least 40 years. We would never join that inner core. It would be an anathema to our democratic traditions and culture.

There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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cryrst The garden of England 22 Jun 24 7.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have never discounted the possibility of some European countries developing closer political and economic ties. But not the entire EU. The concept of an inner core of closer countries, Germany, France, Belgium, possibly The Netherlands and Austria and an outer circle of northern and southern countries, has been suggested for at least 40 years. We would never join that inner core. It would be an anathema to our democratic traditions and culture. There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere. I believe Cameron asked two things. No free movement and no euro. They refused so we did brexit. Good riddance to the EU and frankly I haven’t noticed one jot of change. Apart from we can control our borders(not the illegals) and we don’t have the euro. Edited by cryrst (22 Jun 2024 7.46pm)
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cryrst

The garden of England 22 Jun 24 7.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere.

I believe Cameron asked two things. No free movement and no euro.
They refused so we did brexit. Good riddance to the EU and frankly I haven’t noticed one jot of change. Apart from we can control our borders(not the illegals) and we don’t have the euro.

Edited by cryrst (22 Jun 2024 7.46pm)

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 22 Jun 24 7.53pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It’s obviously untrue! Somethings are self evident. A change of that magnitude requires a treaty. New treaties only pass with unanimity. We have always opposed such a concept so it could not pass. Any arrangements between individual states would therefore need to be outside the EU treaties. This would result in the widely predicted 2 speed Europe model. Thatcher was implacably opposed. Her Bruges speech setting the tone for the UK position:- [Link] She was even stronger later:- [Link] The years since Thatcher were characterised by an endless debate between the hardline Eurosceptics and the more pragmatic realists, but nobody entertained the idea of a deeper integration. The move was always the other way, ending up with Brexit. Even during the Blair years there was no suggestion that such a move would ever be accepted. Obviously untrue? You have NO proof. Like always, you're a fake. This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 22 Jun 24 7.53pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Thatcher was implacably opposed. Her Bruges speech setting the tone for the UK position:-

[Link]

She was even stronger later:-

[Link]

Obviously untrue? You have NO proof. Like always, you're a fake.

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

Alert a moderator to this post

Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 24 8.14pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have never discounted the possibility of some European countries developing closer political and economic ties. But not the entire EU. The concept of an inner core of closer countries, Germany, France, Belgium, possibly The Netherlands and Austria and an outer circle of northern and southern countries, has been suggested for at least 40 years. We would never join that inner core. It would be an anathema to our democratic traditions and culture. There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere. You have absolutely no basis to make that claim. Why do we need Brussels at all? What we sought was trade among European nations. What we got was unelected interference in how we run our country. You were happy with that, so what you say about a federal Europe can be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jun 24 8.14pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have never discounted the possibility of some European countries developing closer political and economic ties. But not the entire EU. The concept of an inner core of closer countries, Germany, France, Belgium, possibly The Netherlands and Austria and an outer circle of northern and southern countries, has been suggested for at least 40 years. We would never join that inner core. It would be an anathema to our democratic traditions and culture.

There is no way it could be done by stealth in our system. It would demand extensive debate in Parliament and cause a great deal of analysis elsewhere.

You have absolutely no basis to make that claim.

Why do we need Brussels at all?

What we sought was trade among European nations. What we got was unelected interference in how we run our country.

You were happy with that, so what you say about a federal Europe can be taken with a pinch of salt.

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