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Bias against Trump
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 15 Dec 17 2.05pm |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Dec 17 2.16pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are any of these things a crime? Shouldn't people be allowed to say a woman (or a man for that matter) is attractive? Why can't people bemoan how their neighbourhood has changed - should they have to pretend they like it? Can't people tell jokes any more? Down with repressive new left puritanism! None of these things are a crime, and as far as I'm aware you can say these things. Listening to some people you'd think the Thought Police were everywhere and peoples kids were grassing them up to Male Pattern Type Gender Sibling. The only thing that's really changed, is that if you're a public figure and start banging on about race, or feeling up your assistant, you're held accountable.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Stuk Top half 15 Dec 17 2.26pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Nowt to do with her.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Stirlingsays 15 Dec 17 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
None of these things are a crime, and as far as I'm aware you can say these things. Listening to some people you'd think the Thought Police were everywhere and peoples kids were grassing them up to Male Pattern Type Gender Sibling. The only thing that's really changed, is that if you're a public figure and start banging on about race, or feeling up your assistant, you're held accountable. Not really Jamie, people have lost their jobs due to their utterances and other people's perceptions of them....so the thought police is actually there in both private and public institutions. I get called a racist on this very thread on the evidence that I fail to see racism in calling a women after Pocahontas and presumably for the crime of finding it amusing.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Dec 17 4.45pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Not really Jamie, people have lost their jobs due to their utterances and other people's perceptions of them....so the thought police is actually there in both private and public institutions. I get called a racist on this very thread on the evidence that I fail to see racism in calling a women after Pocahontas and presumably for the crime of finding it amusing. True, but is it actually because of their utterances, for their failure to live up to the contract they have with their employer. Usually its the latter. And in some cases, most I'd say, that its wrong that happened (the exception being where there is a direct conflict between an individuals views and their position of authority - You can't have prison guards who are actively racist etc). The Pocahontas thing is just stupid, yeah its a bit racially insensitive, but its more stupid than actually racist. I find it odd that people are more worried about things like that, with Trump, than say his tax cuts and abandonment of his election health care pledges. That frustrates me too, its like attacking the BNP on question time for their racial views, rather than actually destroying them by talking about how they intend to fund half the s**t in their manifesto. Of course they're racist, they're an offshoot from the National Front - Get them on the economics and you'll destroy them.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| wordup 15 Dec 17 4.50pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Not really Jamie, people have lost their jobs due to their utterances and other people's perceptions of them....so the thought police is actually there in both private and public institutions. I get called a racist on this very thread on the evidence that I fail to see racism in calling a women after Pocahontas and presumably for the crime of finding it amusing. We constantly get to hear of how people lose their jobs for daring to say anything especially critical of women, or black, or gays or whoever is part of an apparent insidious and anti free speech progressive agenda. Fine.... but if this 'really' is about total free speech and not just the latest guise of those who basically just like having one over on certain groups, there would surely be just as much passion and kiss blowing at people getting fired or attacked for views that actually tick nutty SJW or very full on racially charged 'progressive' boxes such as this loreal model [Link] or this council boss [Link] In the same way that Milo and the alt-right fringe are no doubt 'brave bastions of free speech' on account that they speaks their minds and dare to say pretty vile things about certain individuals, why aren't you indignant about these people getting fired for their views too? It happens very often. This imagining that it's all one way, or all progressives shutting down speech isn't true at all and never has been, it's just the focus of what you really care about so it appears that way to you. Edited by wordup (15 Dec 2017 5.35pm)
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| wordup 15 Dec 17 5.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
This is more of a pincher movement that people have walked into really, ushered in by both the left and right just to maintain control. There is no truly significant threat to our way of life, whether from 'the war on drugs' , or 'the war on terror' unless we let there be, no matter how much people panic themselves. Buying in to these ideas wholesale just does their work for them and allows politicians to use these fears to bring in laws that will impact your life far more than any nutter ever will. It was ideas and attitudes of the right that ushered in a miriad of terror laws, and helped to erode civil liberties. Of course many were fine with that because they basically saw it as something that would only hinder the lives of muslims, and didn't appreciate that anything brought in to target one group will inevitable end of being applied to everyone else. And so whether from the right and online censorship is brought in or 'protect our children', or encryption is obliterated to 'stop terror' or on the left when people are getting hauled in for something racist on twitter, it's all part of the same thing, and helps no-one and protects no-one because all of these things are inevitably used against the people more than any genuine threat. People on the left cheer half of these restrictions, people on the right cheer the other half, and they all merrily march off a cliff together. Edited by wordup (15 Dec 2017 5.37pm)
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 15 Dec 17 6.09pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That frustrates me too, its like attacking the BNP on question time for their racial views, rather than actually destroying them by talking about how they intend to fund half the s**t in their manifesto. Of course they're racist, they're an offshoot from the National Front - Get them on the economics and you'll destroy them. That's true but can't you call them out as racists as well? it is possible for a racist also to have a basic primer understanding of economics unless your supposition is all right wing economics is a bit "wrong".
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| wordup 15 Dec 17 7.00pm |
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F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules - [Link]
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| .TUX. 15 Dec 17 9.34pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
When the US built its previously humongous middle class - that fuelled a booming economy - the top rate of tax was 85%. It wasn't a coincidence. Agreed. As for the debt, as with the UK and many others, it can never be paid off due to every Dollar/Pound etc being loaded with DEBT in the form of interest.....which begs the question of why are you/we paying interest on funds released by what we are told is 'our' bank? Weird to say the least but very very few ever ask themselves why. Lastly, the American economy ''boomed'' more in the 1900's than it did in the 20th century, ie before the creation (against the 2nd Ammendment i believe) of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Income Tax followed shortly after......for some reason?
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| Stirlingsays 16 Dec 17 5.28am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
True, but is it actually because of their utterances, for their failure to live up to the contract they have with their employer. Usually its the latter. In certain cases I'd agree with that, in other cases not so much. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
And in some cases, most I'd say, that its wrong that happened (the exception being where there is a direct conflict between an individuals views and their position of authority - You can't have prison guards who are actively racist etc). And the base by which you'd measure a prison guard's racism? Dangerous territory if you are going to police their words...I agree that there is a line by which you can identify people but we have to be careful....people are losing jobs over past twitter tweets.....people say all kinds of sh1t in their lives and how it's interpreted is subjective. You yourself have said stuff on here that out of context people could unfairly use against you. Much better to judge people on actions and professionalism in their jobs. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The Pocahontas thing is just stupid, yeah its a bit racially insensitive, but its more stupid than actually racist. I find it odd that people are more worried about things like that, with Trump, than say his tax cuts and abandonment of his election health care pledges. That frustrates me too, its like attacking the BNP on question time for their racial views, rather than actually destroying them by talking about how they intend to fund half the s**t in their manifesto. Of course they're racist, they're an offshoot from the National Front - Get them on the economics and you'll destroy them. I don't care that it's 'racially insensitive' to some people....as that is an interpretation. I agree that it's a valid complaint of Trump that he's an insult machine and that's there to criticise but I completely agree with you that far better applications of opposition are on actual policies....too much energy is wasted on matching insults.....fun perhaps but wasted energy. I think it's fair to attack the racial aspect of say the national front but you're correct that some people just can't get beyond that.....similar to the NF themselves and this breaks down any attempt at rational argument in general......it's the old, feelings over reason politics. It kind of remains me of that situation that Ken Clarke found himself over when he was discussing rape and murder and the sentencing differences......People don't want to hear reason being introduced into dark areas of the human soul.....they just want to burn it all.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Dec 17 5.56am |
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Originally posted by wordup
We constantly get to hear of how people lose their jobs for daring to say anything especially critical of women, or black, or gays or whoever is part of an apparent insidious and anti free speech progressive agenda. Fine.... but if this 'really' is about total free speech and not just the latest guise of those who basically just like having one over on certain groups, there would surely be just as much passion and kiss blowing at people getting fired or attacked for views that actually tick nutty SJW or very full on racially charged 'progressive' boxes such as this loreal model [Link] or this council boss [Link] In the same way that Milo and the alt-right fringe are no doubt 'brave bastions of free speech' on account that they speaks their minds and dare to say pretty vile things about certain individuals, why aren't you indignant about these people getting fired for their views too? It happens very often. This imagining that it's all one way, or all progressives shutting down speech isn't true at all and never has been, it's just the focus of what you really care about so it appears that way to you. Edited by wordup (15 Dec 2017 5.35pm) No it really is about free speech. I'm honest when I say that I believe in the marketplace of ideas......Good ideas will survive over time in a free society and bad ideas won't. It is extremely important that the free aspect is continued with so that no current philosophy that is in charge can stop itself from being over taken. Like I said, this freedom is how progressivism rose and I believe how it will fall...or at least its more ardent ideas.....but legally punishing and censoring anyone attacking those ideas or its tenets is not a free society. So while I question why this model was hired in the first place with those views I wasn't one of those who supported her getting the sack nor called for it. Same for this 'white privilege' guy. Tell people to be professional and do the job they are hired to do....don't sack them and wimp out to the activists who bully on social media.....left or right. We are talking about people's rent and mortgages and families....people deserve chances. Debate don't sack people outside of encouraging or pushing violence....it creates a dishonest and cowed society. Complain....argue....but when it comes to attacking people's livelihoods I think that is a darkness too far.....It's an escalation that takes debate away from where it should be....a discussion and meeting point for opposing ideas into an arena of polarised distruct and hatred. I get Jamie's point about employer contracts.....I see how companies aren't fans of controversy.....but I think it's wrong and unfortunate to punish companies for the words of employees....It would just be better if this didn't happen....but I know that this sentiment is unrealistic in these polarized activist heavy times. I don't agree with people getting fired over twitter comments or statements they have made in their own time. As for Milo...the twitter situation was ridiculous but having to resign over those comments on pederasty....I suppose there has to be a line somewhere and it's reasonable in society to discuss where that line should be.....I think that line is far too short at the moment but Milo deserved pushback for those words...even if his opponents were highly unfair in how they used them. Milo is both wonderful and infuriating. He shows me why the American first amendment is better....but as for his personal views...I agree on some and not so much on others..like on God or net neutrality....But he's a funny guy....and by feck we need funny guys in these poe faced times.....and he hates progressive ideas so I'm obviously going to be on his side there. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Dec 2017 6.01am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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