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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Oct 17 11.46pm

The truth about migrants and the NHS.

[Link]


Some interesting figures in there given what the h's keep saying.

 

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Oct 17 11.52pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

The truth about migrants and the NHS.

[Link]


Some interesting figures in there given what the h's keep saying.

Disclosure statement

Karen Bloor has received project funding from the National Institute for Health Research, the Department of Health's Policy Research Programme and the European Union. The views expressed are her own.
Andrew Street has recived project funding from the National Institute of Health Research, the Department of Health's Policy Research Programme, and the European Union. The views expressed are his own.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Oct 17 11.58pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Disclosure statement

Karen Bloor has received project funding from the National Institute for Health Research, the Department of Health's Policy Research Programme and the European Union. The views expressed are her own.
Andrew Street has recived project funding from the National Institute of Health Research, the Department of Health's Policy Research Programme, and the European Union. The views expressed are his own.

Good work Sherlock. Does this mean the research they quote is null and void?

 

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Oct 17 12.05am Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Good work Sherlock. Does this mean the research they quote is null and void?

I notice how you have a knack of putting words in peoples mouths? But I'll answer. Probably not 'Null & Void' but very likely heavily Biased.
In much the same way that If someone who worked in the Oil industry said global warming didn't exist.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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elgrande Flag bedford 09 Oct 17 4.04am Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

I notice how you have a knack of putting words in peoples mouths? But I'll answer. Probably not 'Null & Void' but very likely heavily Biased.
In much the same way that If someone who worked in the Oil industry said global warming didn't exist.

Ha ha well spotted.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 09 Oct 17 7.38am

[Figures quoted from 'Migration Watch']
Immigration means that there are more people for the NHS to care for. In 2013/2014 there were 600,000 new migrant GP registrations in England, Wales and Northern Ireland – that’s a new registration every minute. Migrant women have a higher fertility rate than the UK born and therefore place a disproportionate burden on maternity care – more than one in four babies born in England and Wales (27%) in 2015 was to a migrant mother.While migrants might be young when they first arrive they will also inevitably age and go on to place pressure on the NHS just as the existing population does.

The government introduced an NHS surcharge of £150 per year in 2015 for students and temporary migrants from outside the EU. By Autumn 2016 this had raised an extra £164 million. However, the NHS has also been criticised by the National Audit Office for inefficiency in collecting debts from non-EEA visitors and also for not being rigorous enough in checking the status of visiting patients from other European countries. In 2014/2015, the UK paid out £674 million to European Economic Area (EEA) countries for the treatment of UK nationals visiting Europe yet received just under £50 million from other European nations in the same year for the treatment of EEA visitors in Britain. The NAO adds that the failure to collect debts for treating visitors will cost the health service more than £200 million in 2017.

Some argue that the NHS would collapse without migrant labour. It is true that migrants make up a significant share of the workforce. Research suggests that 26%-35% of doctors and 22% of nurses were born abroad, but no one is advocating restricting doctors or nurses from coming to work in Britain where they are needed.
The UK is failing to maintain the supply of UK-trained nurses and doctors. If it did perhaps we would not need to recruit so many doctors from overseas. The OECD finds that in Italy, the percentage of doctors born abroad is 5% while in Germany it is around 11%. There are of course additional moral reasons why the UK should not be taking medical professionals from countries where medical needs are far greater. For example, there are more nurses from Malawi working in London than there are Malawian nurses working in Malawi. The World Health Organisation says that a shortage of seven million doctors worldwide is particularly acute in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia.

In summary, while migrants undoubtedly make a valuable contribution to the health profession, they also place certain pressures on it.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Oct 17 7.48am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

[Figures quoted from 'Migration Watch']
Immigration means that there are more people for the NHS to care for. In 2013/2014 there were 600,000 new migrant GP registrations in England, Wales and Northern Ireland – that’s a new registration every minute. Migrant women have a higher fertility rate than the UK born and therefore place a disproportionate burden on maternity care – more than one in four babies born in England and Wales (27%) in 2015 was to a migrant mother.While migrants might be young when they first arrive they will also inevitably age and go on to place pressure on the NHS just as the existing population does.

The government introduced an NHS surcharge of £150 per year in 2015 for students and temporary migrants from outside the EU. By Autumn 2016 this had raised an extra £164 million. However, the NHS has also been criticised by the National Audit Office for inefficiency in collecting debts from non-EEA visitors and also for not being rigorous enough in checking the status of visiting patients from other European countries. In 2014/2015, the UK paid out £674 million to European Economic Area (EEA) countries for the treatment of UK nationals visiting Europe yet received just under £50 million from other European nations in the same year for the treatment of EEA visitors in Britain. The NAO adds that the failure to collect debts for treating visitors will cost the health service more than £200 million in 2017.

Some argue that the NHS would collapse without migrant labour. It is true that migrants make up a significant share of the workforce. Research suggests that 26%-35% of doctors and 22% of nurses were born abroad, but no one is advocating restricting doctors or nurses from coming to work in Britain where they are needed.
The UK is failing to maintain the supply of UK-trained nurses and doctors. If it did perhaps we would not need to recruit so many doctors from overseas. The OECD finds that in Italy, the percentage of doctors born abroad is 5% while in Germany it is around 11%. There are of course additional moral reasons why the UK should not be taking medical professionals from countries where medical needs are far greater. For example, there are more nurses from Malawi working in London than there are Malawian nurses working in Malawi. The World Health Organisation says that a shortage of seven million doctors worldwide is particularly acute in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia.

In summary, while migrants undoubtedly make a valuable contribution to the health profession, they also place certain pressures on it.



Migrants that become “ordinarily resident” in the UK are entitled to use the NHS on the same terms as people born here. But they are less likely than the native population to do so. People who migrate tend to be younger and healthier than native populations. Older people and those with disabilities and severe illness are less likely to move, apart from in extreme circumstances. This underpins a longstanding epidemiological phenomenon, called the “healthy migrant effect”.

This is backed up by evidence from NHS data. A University of Oxford study using local authority immigration data and NHS hospital data found that areas with more immigration had lower waiting times for outpatient referrals. On average, a 10% increase in the share of migrants living in a local authority reduced waiting times by nine days. The authors find no evidence that immigration affects waiting times in A&E and in elective care.

Migrants are less likely to be ill, and also more likely to be working. The Institute for Public Policy Research recently reported that EU migrants have higher employment rates than UK nationals. The employment rate of UK nationals is 74%, slightly below the 75% for migrants from EU15 countries (those in the EU before 2004). Employment rates for migrants from newer member states is 83 per cent, although they tend to be in lower-skilled and lower-paid work.

If migrants are working, they’ll be paying income tax and making national insurance contributions. These are the sources of NHS funding. This means that resident migrants are likely to be paying their share towards the costs of the NHS.


 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 09 Oct 17 7.52am

Originally posted by nickgusset


Migrants that become “ordinarily resident” in the UK are entitled to use the NHS on the same terms as people born here. But they are less likely than the native population to do so. People who migrate tend to be younger and healthier than native populations. Older people and those with disabilities and severe illness are less likely to move, apart from in extreme circumstances. This underpins a longstanding epidemiological phenomenon, called the “healthy migrant effect”.

This is backed up by evidence from NHS data. A University of Oxford study using local authority immigration data and NHS hospital data found that areas with more immigration had lower waiting times for outpatient referrals. On average, a 10% increase in the share of migrants living in a local authority reduced waiting times by nine days. The authors find no evidence that immigration affects waiting times in A&E and in elective care.

Migrants are less likely to be ill, and also more likely to be working. The Institute for Public Policy Research recently reported that EU migrants have higher employment rates than UK nationals. The employment rate of UK nationals is 74%, slightly below the 75% for migrants from EU15 countries (those in the EU before 2004). Employment rates for migrants from newer member states is 83 per cent, although they tend to be in lower-skilled and lower-paid work.

If migrants are working, they’ll be paying income tax and making national insurance contributions. These are the sources of NHS funding. This means that resident migrants are likely to be paying their share towards the costs of the NHS.


So what?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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elgrande Flag bedford 09 Oct 17 1.18pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset



Migrants that become “ordinarily resident” in the UK are entitled to use the NHS on the same terms as people born here. But they are less likely than the native population to do so. People who migrate tend to be younger and healthier than native populations. Older people and those with disabilities and severe illness are less likely to move, apart from in extreme circumstances. This underpins a longstanding epidemiological phenomenon, called the “healthy migrant effect”.

This is backed up by evidence from NHS data. A University of Oxford study using local authority immigration data and NHS hospital data found that areas with more immigration had lower waiting times for outpatient referrals. On average, a 10% increase in the share of migrants living in a local authority reduced waiting times by nine days. The authors find no evidence that immigration affects waiting times in A&E and in elective care.

Migrants are less likely to be ill, and also more likely to be working. The Institute for Public Policy Research recently reported that EU migrants have higher employment rates than UK nationals. The employment rate of UK nationals is 74%, slightly below the 75% for migrants from EU15 countries (those in the EU before 2004). Employment rates for migrants from newer member states is 83 per cent, although they tend to be in lower-skilled and lower-paid work.

If migrants are working, they’ll be paying income tax and making national insurance contributions. These are the sources of NHS funding. This means that resident migrants are likely to be paying their share towards the costs of the NHS.


I think you are missing the point twice there,firstly if they pay tax,then yes they can use the nhs, but it still puts a massive strain on it with 600,000 new arrivals.
And secondly going back to what I and others have said.
They can afford the lower wages because they house and bill share....jesus it really isn't rocket science.

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Oct 17 4.48pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I think you are missing the point twice there,firstly if they pay tax,then yes they can use the nhs, but it still puts a massive strain on it with 600,000 new arrivals.
And secondly going back to what I and others have said.
They can afford the lower wages because they house and bill share....jesus it really isn't rocket science.

Perhaps more Brits should house and bill share then.

Do you disagree with the Oxford study that found
On average, a 10% increase in the share of migrants living in a local authority reduced waiting times by nine days. The authors find no evidence that immigration affects waiting times in A&E and in elective care.

Edited by nickgusset (09 Oct 2017 4.50pm)

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 09 Oct 17 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Perhaps more Brits should house and bill share then.

Do you disagree with the Oxford study that found
On average, a 10% increase in the share of migrants living in a local authority reduced waiting times by nine days. The authors find no evidence that immigration affects waiting times in A&E and in elective care.

Edited by nickgusset (09 Oct 2017 4.50pm)

What, indefinitely, in the same job for most of their lives? Maybe they could save up enough to live properly in Poland or Romania.

That NHS study in waiting times is rubbish in areas like East London or areas like Lincoln where there's high immigration. Obviously in parts of Surrey and alike it's not the issue, but you cannot say that in areas of high immigration.

 


COYP

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.TUX. Flag 09 Oct 17 5.16pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I think you are missing the point twice there,firstly if they pay tax,then yes they can use the nhs, but it still puts a massive strain on it with 600,000 new arrivals.
And secondly going back to what I and others have said.
They can afford the lower wages because they house and bill share....jesus it really isn't rocket science.

All of this.
But Nick'll never get it.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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