Because we lose free will when information is obscured. Do keep up.

What grinds my gears on this is not the actions here themselves but rather the inspiration or driving force behind it and therefore general tone.

I still maintain this is not a racial thing at all, it's a cultural thing which has little to do with ethnicity and more to do with the empowerment of failures today. It's people who have little else to hang an identity they can take pride in on and therefore seen as an 'easy win' to martyr themselves or acquire some sort of status within this community. Doesn't matter whether you come from a 'BAME' background or some white kid who was bullied at school, it's the same sentiment and we see the whole spectrum of these types.

There's a difference between objectively looking to review the narrative to provide a factual and balanced representation of somebody and just attacking whomever you can as you think this validates your existence. I can't be the only one who was told 'stop moaning' as a youngster (particularly on the football pitch for me, often around the criticism of the belief in 'throwing the ball down the line' - why???) but I understand why as an adult even if I didn't then.

Slavery was an awful, truly unimaginable by today's society, part of history however it is part of history, aligned to many cultures, geographical regions and peoples. That should be acknowledged. I'm not saying we have to deify such people but to try and remove them from history for a fault assigned to them by the standards of today when their initial place was due to their achievements and contributions to build the society we now have is quite unbalanced and ungrateful IMHO. It's a bit like a child, whether biological or adopted, attacking a parent who provided them a fantastic life, and an inheritance to live well now, on the basis they were 'a bit of a prick at work' after scrutinising their biography. I also think to claim outrage, injustice and social reform off the back of the suffering of others is quite repugnant too. There's plenty of people, from all walks of life and backgrounds, who can and may acknowledge these things but for whom actually building something with their own lives is far more important than tearing down others. That needs to be acknowledged for balance too.

I do understand the 'attack on British heritage' stance, even if I don't think it's as cut and dry to be completely labelled as that. If there was a well intended and balanced approach perhaps rename after somebody, from a plentiful lot to choose from, who did contribute to British and World history with a cleaner record instead of a couple trees out front? There would appear to be no intention to do that however, it is solely for many to enjoy the most arrogant possible belief: that they as individuals are ushering in some sort of Utopia as they are the very best a human can and ever has been and therefore have the right to set the world straight. A world they've probably contributed little to I will add.

Probably the most shameful part of it. Elizabeth I a terrible skinflint.

"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it." [Orwell]

EU sceptics were literally being told this for decades.

I remember being told on Hol, long before Brexit was a thing, that people like me were 'foaming at the month and swivel eyed' over the EU.....Oh and by the way I'm very happy about Brexit and not being a part of that insane globalist project.....though in reality the leaders have just completely ignored large aspects of Brexit and just carried on.

The point you made here was literally the same point leavers were making from the day Britain joined the EU......and what you are complaining about is literally what we were faced with.

I bet you never gave a fig about it when the shoe was on the other foot.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2023 7.15pm)

You're absolutely right Spider and I enjoy many of your contributions to Palace talk

What we think on Brexit is all rather unimportant!