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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 01 Mar 22 5.54pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
Yes, apparently a generous chap has offered girls accomodation at windsor castle, says a coach load could stay at harrys old lodge, what a legend! Prince Andrew doesn’t even pay for his own Pizza Express and his mum makes every decision for him outside of leisure.
COYP |
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 01 Mar 22 6.13pm |
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Moldova is next, Ukraine to be broken up into 4 parts, this is not ending east of the Dnieper. Source Belarus Military showing off invasion plans. Potentially opens up a huge front on Romania. Edited by Ouzo Dan (01 Mar 2022 6.55pm)
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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Attachment: | Badger11 Beckenham 01 Mar 22 6.22pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Moldova is next, Ukraine to be broken up into 3 parts, this is not ending east of the Dnieper. Source Belarus Military showing off invasion plans. Potentially opens up a huge front on Romania.[/quote] I hope not I have a holiday booked their in May.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 01 Mar 22 6.48pm |
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Sergei Lavrov, how the mighty are fallen...... A giant screen at the UN, the Russian FM looks down on his assembled subordinates. And they walk out en masse.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Mar 22 7.21pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
However, if we stayed out of it but Putin decided to attack a Nato country I guess we will just have to enter the breach.....and take what comes, if that's us all dying then that's down to the politicians and agendas that took us here....we are but their pawns. However, nothing in what Putin has been saying suggests he wants a war with Nato. As for what goes on in Russia amongst the elites, I think there will be a cost, as much to us as for them, and Putin's standing will have taken a knock even if he ultimately gets his way in Ukraine. Personally I don't see sanctions lasting long and maybe Putin will be removed at some point who knows. While now is a difficult time I consider it highly important for all our securities that Russia doesn't become even more ideologically allied with China against us. I pray for all our sakes that some form of future reconciliation with Russia is possible...so this battle between empires nonsense can be heavily reduced. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Mar 2022 4.26pm) This is another concept that can be found on the hard-right social media platforms. Not only do I think it is completely incorrect I also think it is not something to even be aired at this time. If picked up and reported in Russia it would send a bad message. Blaming anyone but Putin, and his distorted world-view, for this crisis, cannot be justified. No-one else had an "agenda" that brought us to this situation. Trying to cosy up to Putin, as some recommend and someone famously did, just makes things worse. Nato is not a threat to Russia. Its sole purpose is defence. Putin's demands that the countries bordering Russia remove their Nato nuclear weapons could easily be answered and agreed to, if Russia agreed to a quid pro quo arrangement and agreed to remove its nuclear weapons by a similar distance. Subject to independent monitoring. Even better would be a complete demilitarisation in the same area, thus providing a buffer zone to both sides. That is much more beneficial to the west, who have no intention to abuse Russia's territory, than to Russia who have already proved they are prepared to invade a sovereign state. I agree that bringing Russia into our camp, and not China's, is very desirable. Getting Putin out of the picture comes first though.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 01 Mar 22 8.27pm |
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China say they are not allies of Russia but partners. That's quite significant, it shows us that they are not as close as we thought.
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BlueJay  UK 01 Mar 22 9.01pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Moldova is next, Ukraine to be broken up into 4 parts, this is not ending east of the Dnieper. Source Belarus Military showing off invasion plans. Potentially opens up a huge front on Romania. Edited by Ouzo Dan (01 Mar 2022 6.55pm) Nice to get a headsup..
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| Stirlingsays 01 Mar 22 9.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is another concept that can be found on the hard-right social media platforms. Not only do I think it is completely incorrect I also think it is not something to even be aired at this time. If picked up and reported in Russia it would send a bad message. Blaming anyone but Putin, and his distorted world-view, for this crisis, cannot be justified. No-one else had an "agenda" that brought us to this situation. Trying to cosy up to Putin, as some recommend and someone famously did, just makes things worse. Nato is not a threat to Russia. Its sole purpose is defence. Putin's demands that the countries bordering Russia remove their Nato nuclear weapons could easily be answered and agreed to, if Russia agreed to a quid pro quo arrangement and agreed to remove its nuclear weapons by a similar distance. Subject to independent monitoring. Even better would be a complete demilitarisation in the same area, thus providing a buffer zone to both sides. That is much more beneficial to the west, who have no intention to abuse Russia's territory, than to Russia who have already proved they are prepared to invade a sovereign state. I agree that bringing Russia into our camp, and not China's, is very desirable. Getting Putin out of the picture comes first though. While we would probably agree on the desirable end point from here we obviously don't agree on how we got here. You seem to think that knowledge of past failures and irresponsible statecraft are only believed on the 'hard right' as you put it.....The reality would obviously surprise you then. Your concepts of blame here are similar to your viewpoint of Trump. You seem to have a filtered lens that can only see one way...it's very religious in that way. Similar to religion it assumes goodness and pure intent from one side and evil from another....that's not how the real world works. This isn't really the time to do a deep dive into these matters. I think those actually interested in Russian history and world affairs probably already knows a fair bit about how we got here. However, anyone interested in balance, who looks into the situation after the Berlin wall came down....anyone who actually looks into where Putin's views were at that time. Anyone who looks into what the west did and by extension Nato in relation to pursuing actions towards greater world peace would regard decisions as numerous opportunities lost....some might say incompetent at best and irresponsible greed otherwise. What happened in Russia in the nineties and afterwards also was disastrous and itself led to Putin. Anyone serious who isn't just interested in 'Daily Star' type takes would reach a more nuanced perspective. People could look into the politics of Ukraine, the 2014 coup and the dodgy deals...anyone balanced looking at that wouldn't have your rather rudimentary 'look no hands' analysis of how we got here. None of that is a support for Russia invading Ukraine. You can be against that and also be against how we got here. Innocent people are dying and suffering and what's playing out is human tragedy on significant scales.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Mar 22 10.41pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
While we would probably agree on the desirable end point from here we obviously don't agree on how we got here. You seem to think that knowledge of past failures and irresponsible statecraft are only believed on the 'hard right' as you put it.....The reality would obviously surprise you then. Your concepts of blame here are similar to your viewpoint of Trump. You seem to have a filtered lens that can only see one way...it's very religious in that way. Similar to religion it assumes goodness and pure intent from one side and evil from another....that's not how the real world works. This isn't really the time to do a deep dive into these matters. I think those actually interested in Russian history and world affairs probably already knows a fair bit about how we got here. However, anyone interested in balance, who looks into the situation after the Berlin wall came down....anyone who actually looks into where Putin's views were at that time. Anyone who looks into what the west did and by extension Nato in relation to pursuing actions towards greater world peace would regard decisions as numerous opportunities lost....some might say incompetent at best and irresponsible greed otherwise. What happened in Russia in the nineties and afterwards also was disastrous and itself led to Putin. Anyone serious who isn't just interested in 'Daily Star' type takes would reach a more nuanced perspective. People could look into the politics of Ukraine, the 2014 coup and the dodgy deals...anyone balanced looking at that wouldn't have your rather rudimentary 'look no hands' analysis of how we got here. None of that is a support for Russia invading Ukraine. You can be against that and also be against how we got here. Innocent people are dying and suffering and what's playing out is human tragedy on significant scales. I don't need a lecture on 20th century European politics. I lived through more than half of it, which is a lot more than most posting here. I understand full well what and how things developed. This situation has nothing whatsoever to with any "past failures" by any politician, of any persuasion. Criticism is always a cheap commodity, especially with the benefit of hindsight, but it is beyond cheap now. It's irresponsible in these circumstances that the hard-right, and it is the hard-right, seem to want to point the finger of blame. It really doesn't matter how we got here at the moment. The only thing that matters is getting where we need to be. There are lessons to be learned. There always are from every one of life's turns. There is also a time to learn them, and that time is not now. This is a time for unity and for those with criticism to keep their mouths, and keyboards quiet.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Grumbles 01 Mar 22 10.50pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
While we would probably agree on the desirable end point from here we obviously don't agree on how we got here. You seem to think that knowledge of past failures and irresponsible statecraft are only believed on the 'hard right' as you put it.....The reality would obviously surprise you then. Your concepts of blame here are similar to your viewpoint of Trump. You seem to have a filtered lens that can only see one way...it's very religious in that way. Similar to religion it assumes goodness and pure intent from one side and evil from another....that's not how the real world works. This isn't really the time to do a deep dive into these matters. I think those actually interested in Russian history and world affairs probably already knows a fair bit about how we got here. However, anyone interested in balance, who looks into the situation after the Berlin wall came down....anyone who actually looks into where Putin's views were at that time. Anyone who looks into what the west did and by extension Nato in relation to pursuing actions towards greater world peace would regard decisions as numerous opportunities lost....some might say incompetent at best and irresponsible greed otherwise. What happened in Russia in the nineties and afterwards also was disastrous and itself led to Putin. Anyone serious who isn't just interested in 'Daily Star' type takes would reach a more nuanced perspective. People could look into the politics of Ukraine, the 2014 coup and the dodgy deals...anyone balanced looking at that wouldn't have your rather rudimentary 'look no hands' analysis of how we got here. None of that is a support for Russia invading Ukraine. You can be against that and also be against how we got here. Innocent people are dying and suffering and what's playing out is human tragedy on significant scales. you been reading a lot of wiki recently or did Gab tell you?
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| Stirlingsays 01 Mar 22 11.01pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don't need a lecture on 20th century European politics. I lived through more than half of it, which is a lot more than most posting here. I understand full well what and how things developed. This situation has nothing whatsoever to with any "past failures" by any politician, of any persuasion. Criticism is always a cheap commodity, especially with the benefit of hindsight, but it is beyond cheap now. It's irresponsible in these circumstances that the hard-right, and it is the hard-right, seem to want to point the finger of blame. It really doesn't matter how we got here at the moment. The only thing that matters is getting where we need to be. There are lessons to be learned. There always are from every one of life's turns. There is also a time to learn them, and that time is not now. This is a time for unity and for those with criticism to keep their mouths, and keyboards quiet. Look there's no real point us discussing this, you want to see the world how you want it to be and no one's going to convince you otherwise.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| BlueJay UK 01 Mar 22 11.01pm |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
Yes, apparently a generous chap has offered girls accomodation at windsor castle, says a coach load could stay at harrys old lodge, what a legend! This isn't a given though as it largely depends on Pizza Express opening hours. He's a busy man! Edited by BlueJay (01 Mar 2022 11.02pm)
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