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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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The Dolphin Flag 01 Mar 22 2.12pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Just checked - 2024.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 01 Mar 22 2.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

The obvious question is what is in it for the Russian elite. They already have wealth and power and no one was taking that away from them.

However Putin's actions now put that at risk, I don't see any benefit for them continuing to support him as it will make their lives harder.

Hopefully enough of them will see it that way and tell Putin to back down or go.

It could happen but I doubt it.

Russia's resources are in high demand and once the fighting ends personally I doubt what you are seeing now continues.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 01 Mar 22 2.19pm

Quote Britain has been accused of opening a loophole in sanctions designed to hobble the Putin regime by granting one of Moscow’s biggest banks an “absurd” month-long exemption from the enforcement of an assets freeze.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced last Thursday that the state-owned VTB Bank, which is the second-largest Russian bank and its largest investment bank, was the subject of a “full and immediate” asset freeze in the UK as part of the Government’s attempts to help derail Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine by targeting key finance houses.

But the following day the Treasury unit in charge of enforcing the UK’s sanctions quietly issued a 30-day licence granting permission for any individual or entity to “wind down any transactions” with VTB until 27 March.

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 01 Mar 22 2.27pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Good post BTPunt.
The least worst is still unacceptable though because what comes next?
I wonder when their next election is?

Whenever they hold an election, it will only be a farce Dolphin. Putin switched all the power from the elected prime minister to the president (himself, lifelong role). The proper answer to your question, therefore, is probably: After Putin has died of old age.

Apparently, when Franco lay in his hospital bed, an old man breathing his last, and as his government continued the business they had begun sometime before of transitioning Spain from his bloody dictatorship to a modern democracy, those around Franco, from his generals to his family to the medical staff to the caterers maintained the pretence that he was all-powerful.

He went to his grave thinking he was still running a country that had, in fact, moved on from him as soon as they were able, and which defined itself for a long time by its own failure to remove him during the long and terrible decades of his rule.

Perhaps that is what will happen in Russia?

Edited by TheBigToePunt (01 Mar 2022 2.30pm)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 01 Mar 22 3.58pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm not seeing things as quite so desperate for Putin myself. I think that's just how the western media are presenting it.

Don't get me wrong, I support the Ukrainian people in their fight against the invader, however that doesn't mean I can't smell the obvious coffee in the room.....We are talking a minnow against a relative giant here.

It's obvious that Russia didn't plan on destroying the cities and even now it has left the water and electricity on in them....something that goes against all effective modern city warfare.

Now Russia has decided to use its might and numbers and it's going to be much more ugly and I fear for all the innocent lives that are going to be lost on top of what's gone before. However one hope is that because they intend for these cities to be Russian they aren't trying to destroy them.

Regardless for me this is a brother war and I have zero support for it. I understand why it's happening but that doesn't change my disagreement with it.

I said the main fighting would be over in roughly two weeks and that still looks to be the case. It's a tragedy but all the brave men in East Ukraine are going to go through the Russia mincer.

I haven't seen anything that changes from Putin deciding on taking East Ukraine into Russia and negotiating for western Ukraine to be a neutral state with a friendly government between him and Nato.

I think that's his plan.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Mar 2022 1.54pm)

It may be. If it is, then much as though it will stick in the craw of every decent person, I think we must be prepared, for the time being, to accept it. Prolonging a battle that was always going to be lost is now too costly. Showing the west Ukraine's resolve and bravery has stiffened ours. We now know what we face. That job is done.

We need to win the war. Not a battle. And make no mistake, this could easily only be the first battle. Allowing Putin to claim victory, whilst the west maintains its sanctions and Putin is treated as a pariah, will allow the west to strengthen its defences and the pressure to build on Putin internally.

We can win the propaganda war. Much as I detest the way fake information is spread these days through the internet it seems that the young people in Russia now get most of their information via social media. Putin is already blocking some sources, but the determined will always find a way.

I always thought this would end up as a new Cold War, with the constant unease of a nuclear catastrophe hanging over us. Only this time with a genuinely frightening man with his finger on the button.

Using the oligarchs' financial muscle to influence the military and stage a coup d'etat no longer seems ridiculous. I cannot believe they want to risk a nuclear war. Us using the undoubted backchannels we have will strengthen that.

Us reaching out, in every possible way, to the Russian people to assure them it's not their fault makes sense. Offering to restore some sporting links once the fighting stops could do that as the venues could be plastered with messages in Russian.

Regime change in Russia has to be the end game. The difficulty is to get there as safely as possible.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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BlueJay Flag UK 01 Mar 22 4.03pm

Russia targets Kyiv TV Tower, located directly at the Babyn Yar memorial site, where Nazis killed over 30,000 Jews in 1941. The northern part of Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site was clearly hit by Russian air raid.

No doubt more Russian "denazifying" at work..

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 01 Mar 22 4.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It may be. If it is, then much as though it will stick in the craw of every decent person, I think we must be prepared, for the time being, to accept it. Prolonging a battle that was always going to be lost is now too costly. Showing the west Ukraine's resolve and bravery has stiffened ours. We now know what we face. That job is done.

We need to win the war. Not a battle. And make no mistake, this could easily only be the first battle. Allowing Putin to claim victory, whilst the west maintains its sanctions and Putin is treated as a pariah, will allow the west to strengthen its defences and the pressure to build on Putin internally.

We can win the propaganda war. Much as I detest the way fake information is spread these days through the internet it seems that the young people in Russia now get most of their information via social media. Putin is already blocking some sources, but the determined will always find a way.

I always thought this would end up as a new Cold War, with the constant unease of a nuclear catastrophe hanging over us. Only this time with a genuinely frightening man with his finger on the button.

Using the oligarchs' financial muscle to influence the military and stage a coup d'etat no longer seems ridiculous. I cannot believe they want to risk a nuclear war. Us using the undoubted backchannels we have will strengthen that.

Us reaching out, in every possible way, to the Russian people to assure them it's not their fault makes sense. Offering to restore some sporting links once the fighting stops could do that as the venues could be plastered with messages in Russian.

Regime change in Russia has to be the end game. The difficulty is to get there as safely as possible.


I agree that escalation would be crazy.

However, if we stayed out of it but Putin decided to attack a Nato country I guess we will just have to enter the breach.....and take what comes, if that's us all dying then that's down to the politicians and agendas that took us here....we are but their pawns.

However, nothing in what Putin has been saying suggests he wants a war with Nato.

As for what goes on in Russia amongst the elites, I think there will be a cost, as much to us as for them, and Putin's standing will have taken a knock even if he ultimately gets his way in Ukraine.

Personally I don't see sanctions lasting long and maybe Putin will be removed at some point who knows.

While now is a difficult time I consider it highly important for all our securities that Russia doesn't become even more ideologically allied with China against us. I pray for all our sakes that some form of future reconciliation with Russia is possible...so this battle between empires nonsense can be heavily reduced.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Mar 2022 4.26pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 01 Mar 22 4.43pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Listening to the radio at lunchtime today. Lots of listeners/callers to the radio show offering accommodation to Ukraine refugees.
Getting a bit silly when you could possibly have Mr Sutcliffe from Leeds offering to put up any single females, or Mr Singh and Mr Assad offering shelter to any young girls.
Out of the frying pan,...and all that

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 01 Mar 22 4.46pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

I have changed my opinion over Putin and Europe, or perhaps the situation has changed.
I think Putin is definitely showing the strain of not having thought things through properly.
Ultimately , Europe are now seemingly galvanising, though things are precarious when trying to avoid direct military contact between other nations and Russia.
That is almost certain to push Putin to go nuclear, and I think he's mad enough to do it.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (01 Mar 2022 4.47pm)

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 01 Mar 22 5.12pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Listening to the radio at lunchtime today. Lots of listeners/callers to the radio show offering accommodation to Ukraine refugees.
Getting a bit silly when you could possibly have Mr Sutcliffe from Leeds offering to put up any single females, or Mr Singh and Mr Assad offering shelter to any young girls.
Out of the frying pan,...and all that

Yes, apparently a generous chap has offered girls accomodation at windsor castle, says a coach load could stay at harrys old lodge, what a legend!

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 01 Mar 22 5.21pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Yes, apparently a generous chap has offered girls accomodation at windsor castle, says a coach load could stay at harrys old lodge, what a legend!

I hear there's a height restriction however.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 01 Mar 22 5.48pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I hear there's a height restriction however.

Yes, no one over 18-them is the rules!

 

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