He had campaigned on that issue for almost his entire life, along with others who had no time for the EU project. Eventually the unknown green grass managed, just, to be enough to get the result he wanted. With governments we only have to wait 5 years to express our regret at being so stupid.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

We have been through this many times. Selling the status quo is always much harder than selling the prospect of change, because there is a hard record to attack against only promises. Voters routinely fall for this. They did in 2016 and will again in 2024.

We should never have decided the country’s future in this way. It was beyond stupid to allow political promises and slogans, assisted by the efforts of vested media interests and others, to convince just enough that the grass was greener over the unseen and untried Brexit hill. Now we find that although it’s bitter and lacking nutrition the gate is locked and we cannot just walk back, even by voting in a government prepared to say sorry, we messed up!

Imagine if Labour held a referendum shortly after acquiring power that asked the people to confirm that the election cycle would now be every 50 years, not 5 on the basis that a long term plan was needed to get things straight and that having to be watchful of securing regular majorities gets in the way of that. Which they won by 52:48. Would you be happy?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Regarding junior doctors, Labour have not ty been really pressed on this, they have mumble some stuff about negotiations.

It's fairly simple, if the BMA settle for less than the 35% they are currently striking for then it shows the BMA is a politically driven and the strikes were weaponising their anti government stance.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Read what Isaid, I am voting Toryonly because my local MP has been helpful and is very good (Wissie would be proud of me, for this). The alternative in my area is the LibDems.

Au contraire. In the first Sunak v Starmer TV debate, Sunak pushed him very hard, asking him what he would do about the striking doctors. You are right that he replied that "we would negotiate" and Sunak replied "we've been negotiating for over a year, so what would you do; would you give them a 35% pay rise or wouldn't you?". Met with, as you say, mumbling. The next day, of course, Sunak was portrayed as 'rude', 'aggressive' etc. Well you can't have an aspiring Prime Minister being pushed to explain his proposals now can you? Whatever next?!

Edited by YT (20 Jun 2024 7.44am)

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

…and Neil Kinnock. But TOBIAS will say that he eventually came to his senses and got a job at the EU Commission. His wife and son also got a job with the EU. Other opinions will focus on the hypocrisy.

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.