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Hansy 13 Jul 17 9.52am | |
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Corbyn advising Labour are ready to negotiate Brexit. The Party that is not in power, and cannot agree between themselves what Brexit they want.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 10.50am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
It was government that decided to fit cladding just because they thought it looked nice. It is government that is meant to design and enforce building regulations and provide adequate resources to tackle fires. A lack of equipment hampered efforts of firefighters. It's the government that is responsible for providing regulation and guidance on fire safety and the requirements to fit things such as sprinkler systems and fire doors. The government is responsible for planning policy. The government is responsible for the budgets available to repair and maintain social housing. The government is responsible for housing policy. Less government in this case has led to companies and local government being allowed to cut corners and put people's lives at risk. This was what was at the end of Cameron's road that he set us down in his bonfire of the regulations, and the degradation of our housing stock. These are areas the private sector will not address as adhering to regulations is costly and so if up to them they would have them virtually scrapped and avoid them where possible.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 10.52am | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
It's been like this for years though, it's not just the current government. I don't know the full story, but imo the construction company or maintenance company will have known the cladding is against the regulations, and is not fire proof. Hopefully we will find out the full story with the inquiry. But I doubt we will ever know the true death toll. One of the worst jobs in the world having to count the dead or the remains that are still there. I am going to guess those there illegally might not admit to a certain number of people there also. The inquiry is already a stitch-up. The government (who may be to blame) have been allowed to select the judge and the terms of reference. It's like letting a criminal select the charges he faces along with the judge and jury. It's a farce.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 10.55am | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Corbyn advising Labour are ready to negotiate Brexit. The Party that is not in power, and cannot agree between themselves what Brexit they want. All Labour need to do is vote down anything the Tories put forward on Brexit and by November we will have another election which they are currently favourites to win. Brexit is a complete s*it show at the moment. The Tories keep contradicting one another and will rip themselves apart over it at our expense.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Jul 17 11.02am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
It is government that is meant to design and enforce building regulations and provide adequate resources to tackle fires. A lack of equipment hampered efforts of firefighters. It's the government that is responsible for providing regulation and guidance on fire safety and the requirements to fit things such as sprinkler systems and fire doors. The government is responsible for planning policy. The government is responsible for the budgets available to repair and maintain social housing. The government is responsible for housing policy. Less government in this case has led to companies and local government being allowed to cut corners and put people's lives at risk. This was what was at the end of Cameron's road that he set us down in his bonfire of the regulations, and the degradation of our housing stock. These are areas the private sector will not address as adhering to regulations is costly and so if up to them they would have them virtually scrapped and avoid them where possible. Just saying less government is better is woefully myopic and ignorant of any evidence or the real world. Your list of government failings shows how inefficient and incompetent most governments are. Obviously we need government to provide the community with defence, the common facilities and amenities of civilised life, to secure standards of health and education, to guarantee security to its weak or unfortunate members. But government should be kept within bounds, not become the all embracing octopus that the left would like to see controlling every aspect of our lives. Edited by hedgehog50 (13 Jul 2017 11.37am)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Jul 17 11.03am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
All Labour need to do is vote down anything the Tories put forward on Brexit and by November we will have another election which they are currently favourites to win. Brexit is a complete s*it show at the moment. The Tories keep contradicting one another and will rip themselves apart over it at our expense. Whereas the Labour Party is in perfect unity?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Hansy 13 Jul 17 11.25am | |
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I am sure I saw somewhere that it was the Labour party under Tony Blair that allowed Councils to do the fire inspections instead of the Fire Service. It is also the duty of the construction company to abide by building regulations, if this material was against this then it is the construction company's fault. Trying to find a way that the PM or her governing body are in any way criminals or guilt because of this incident is quite silly. If it was a Labour government I will be saying the same thing. It's like me knowing there is a law not to stab someone, but I'm going to do it anyway = That is still my fault. The cuts were made during the Cameron government. But the Cuts would not have made the Fire fighters get there any quicker. I will also add it is pretty f*cking stupid the Local government will not be monitoring tower blocks like this. Edited by Hansy (13 Jul 2017 11.33am)
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Hansy 13 Jul 17 11.27am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
All Labour need to do is vote down anything the Tories put forward on Brexit and by November we will have another election which they are currently favourites to win. Brexit is a complete s*it show at the moment. The Tories keep contradicting one another and will rip themselves apart over it at our expense. Like they did in the recent votings? Labour are VERY split on Brexit as we saw with Chucka's proposal. Labour can vote down, but the Tory/DUP coalition are still in power, you're suggesting every party apart from Tories/DUP will vote down as we saw recently not every party will. If there is another election, it will not be with May. Not every Labour supporter voted Labour because of Corbyn they voted because they didn't want May in power (Like some of my cousins). With a better candidate the Tories could do alot better. Brexit will be a sh*t show to those that voted remain. It is 2 years of negotiating, look how quickly the EU opened their arms to Japan did Japan have to accept freedom of Movement? Canada, US and Aus are all in favour of trade deals with us. Two of those Nations the EU have struggled with. The UK was a global trade power before the EU, now we are European trade power. Edited by Hansy (13 Jul 2017 11.35am)
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becky over the moon 13 Jul 17 4.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
I am a strong believer in looking after those that have served our country. It isn't their choice to go to war, it is the choice of those that sit on benches. Hearing about soldiers, navy or air force personnel living out on the streets is damn right disrespectful for what they have or would have done for our country. The reason why I believe we need to help those in the commonwealth, is because alot of the countries still have the queen as the head of state or those that have removed her we need to continue to build good relations with. India as an example could be a huge economic powerhouse that the UK can make significant investments in, their infrastructure is absolutely dire, and their compliance is next to nothing. Helping countries like that will increase our global outlook, instead of the European outlook we currently have. For me, Brexit is a really exciting time. Non-EU countries already coming out in support for a trade deal and what the Hungarian Foreign Secretary said in his recent interview about EU and UK trade speaks volumes. Edited by Hansy (12 Jul 2017 8.54pm)
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 4.55pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Your list of government failings shows how inefficient and incompetent most governments are. Obviously we need government to provide the community with defence, the common facilities and amenities of civilised life, to secure standards of health and education, to guarantee security to its weak or unfortunate members. But government should be kept within bounds, not become the all embracing octopus that the left would like to see controlling every aspect of our lives. Edited by hedgehog50 (13 Jul 2017 11.37am) These failings aren't mere incompetence. They are part of an active drive to reduce the influence of the state and give corporations free rein. The very thing you said was a universal good. I'm not the one who made such a statement you were. I merely pointed out an example which exposed the inaccuracy of what you say. I don't want a totalitarian state, but it's government's responsibility to provide public goods but also intervene where markets are inefficient and to redress the imbalances in society and tackle social and economic inefficiencies such as high levels of inequality. Free markets don't do this.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 5.01pm | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Like they did in the recent votings? Labour are VERY split on Brexit as we saw with Chucka's proposal. Labour can vote down, but the Tory/DUP coalition are still in power, you're suggesting every party apart from Tories/DUP will vote down as we saw recently not every party will. If there is another election, it will not be with May. Not every Labour supporter voted Labour because of Corbyn they voted because they didn't want May in power (Like some of my cousins). With a better candidate the Tories could do alot better. Brexit will be a sh*t show to those that voted remain. It is 2 years of negotiating, look how quickly the EU opened their arms to Japan did Japan have to accept freedom of Movement? Canada, US and Aus are all in favour of trade deals with us. Two of those Nations the EU have struggled with. The UK was a global trade power before the EU, now we are European trade power. Edited by Hansy (13 Jul 2017 11.35am) It's in Labour's interests to get rid of the Tories whatever their individual feelings about Brexit. Every party will vote against the Tory/DUP alliance and some Tories will vote against one of these bills at some point. The view within the Tory party on Europe is so strongly polarised they can't possibly appease both wings. This will force May out, force another election and there is no Tory with wide appeal and the country is fed up of Tory austerity and their attitude towards Brexit and most other issues. You've not really explained why it will be a s*it show to those who voted remain... Looking at it objectively it's been a farce. The Tories have no clue what they are doing and are constantly briefing against one another. They have no policy, no clue, no idea what deal they want, no idea what "no deal" looks like. It's frankly quite worrying. As previously stated I was a reluctant remainer, but in the right hands think Brexit could be successful. These aren't the right hands. They are dangerous.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jul 17 5.02pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Whereas the Labour Party is in perfect unity? They aren't the ones currently negotiating the deal. They have time to get their policies in order now. The Tories have shown that they have no clue and can't be trusted with the job.
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