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 Stirlingsays  09 Sep 15 9.44pm |
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Quote crystal balls at 09 Sep 2015 9.31pm
Except for a noisy minority, the Tories have always been very pro EU. I don't think that more than one or two of any Tory cabinet in living memory have ever been anti EU; some of the party membership have, but they have largely jumped ship to the UKIP fringes now. Most Tories in the post-war world have been of the "one nation" variety, right of centre but pragmatic in their views on topics like people coming to the UK, rather than knee-jerk anti foreigners per se. They are aware that as the UK population ages we need people of working age to replace the retirees and pay taxes necessary to keep UK plc in business. That's not left or right wing; it's being pragmatic.
This.....We need working age people....Hang on....How is this solving the problem?.....Do these 'people of working age' not get old then? Does this rising tide of people not require all the same requirements that everyone else needs? All the argument results in is a situation like a cocaine addict finding that he needs bigger and bigger hits to satisfy the craving...The more you grow the population the more older people will result.....The more larger amounts of younger people you need to support them.....You can grow the population but you can't grow more land.....So the whole line of reasoning is a busted flush. As for the Tory party....I think you're way off.....The pro EU group are very much outnumbered....problem is the PM is one of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2015 9.47pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 09 Sep 15 10.13pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 09 Sep 2015 9.44pm
Quote crystal balls at 09 Sep 2015 9.31pm
Except for a noisy minority, the Tories have always been very pro EU. I don't think that more than one or two of any Tory cabinet in living memory have ever been anti EU; some of the party membership have, but they have largely jumped ship to the UKIP fringes now. Most Tories in the post-war world have been of the "one nation" variety, right of centre but pragmatic in their views on topics like people coming to the UK, rather than knee-jerk anti foreigners per se. They are aware that as the UK population ages we need people of working age to replace the retirees and pay taxes necessary to keep UK plc in business. That's not left or right wing; it's being pragmatic.
This.....We need working age people....Hang on....How is this solving the problem?.....Do these 'people of working age' not get old then? Does this rising tide of people not require all the same requirements that everyone else needs? All the argument results in is a situation like a cocaine addict finding that he needs bigger and bigger hits to satisfy the craving...The more you grow the population the more older people will result.....The more larger amounts of younger people you need to support them.....You can grow the population but you can't grow more land.....So the whole line of reasoning is a busted flush. As for the Tory party....I think you're way off.....The pro EU group are very much outnumbered....problem is the PM is one of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2015 9.47pm)
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 10 Sep 15 7.58am |
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About time.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 10 Sep 15 8.14am |
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A token gesture though dan, its going to take alot more than air strikes to topple both sides.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Sep 15 9.16am |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 4.34pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 3.48pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 2.09pm
This is a pointless discussion really Yes because the Conservative party have always been a right wing party in the UK. Cameron and his government are somewhere between Ted Heaths government and Thatcher's. It is all relative. If you are sitting on the left knee of Tony Benn, practically everyone else is to the right of you. I think that's why they're defined by objective positions from a central point, rather than subjectively in relation to each individual. Otherwise I'd make the SWP look like a right wing facist Junta
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Sep 15 9.23am |
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Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 6.07pm
Quote Mapletree at 09 Sep 2015 5.28pm
No where did I blame the Syrians for the problems in the area, so I don't know where you got that from. I am blaming unmanaged immigration for destroying areas and communities. I am blaming various governments for encouraging immigration without forethought on how that would affect the people living isn't eh areas where immigration happened (both existing and immigrant communities have been affected). I am also, controversially, blaming some immigrant communities for not integrating with others and treating their living environment appallingly. Walk down from West Croydon Bus Atation to the Factory Lane Post Office and you will find all manner of shot piled up on the streets because the immigrant community could not give a stuff about the local environment. ----------------------------------------------- I agree that many areas have suffered a kind of anomy as a result of the movement of people. Coventry is a good example when it rebuilt itself. Not sure it matters where they migrate from, both New Addington and Crawley were East End overspill and turned into virtual no-go areas. Maybe when people are from other countries they don't understand how to do things here, but in my experience of visiting countries many of them are far more caring of their community than ours. When you get a variety of people move into an area that don't know each other, the kn*b heads can get away with stuff. If you can get a feeling of community going they can't, witness the attack on the moped robbers yesterday. Interestingly New Addington seems to be improving, perhaps its residents have grown into their own skins a bit and it's establishing a feeling of mutual support and censure. Turning to Croydon, Jamie how dare you blanket dismiss my town. It made me and is inside me. If I go away I always come back. I don't love every part of it and I am selective about where I go and when but don't you dare belittle it and along with it me and others like me. Palace is a club that is rooted in Croydon and its supporters views are representative of a way of thinking that is uniquely South London and primarily Croydon. Think on, as Matt said being a mod you need to understand your audience. Not all of us want to move out to the country, although God knows it seems like most of the HOL has. Where do you live? Frankly, I don't think it is central Croydon. I think you are a typical liberal apologist and your view is more of 'what I want' rather than the reality of the situation. I was thinking about this last night on the way home, and I was specifically thinking of when I lived in Sheffield. The area wasn't pleasant to look at but I loved it, and felt at home there and loved it, something that most people who visited me didn't seem to understand. So I'm happy to admit I am probably wrong. The places I've been in Croydon were pretty grim and nasty, but I'm quite probably biased by those experiences. I live in a s**ty part of Reading, next door to the university. Which brings me back to the above point. Next time I'm going to be out in Croydon I'll get some pointers and maybe see the side of it I haven't seen before. Which is my way of saying I'm sorry, and maybe I should have thought more objectively.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Sep 15 10.45am |
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Blimey, apologies from both you and Matt. Like Matt said, we love you. But just to reinforce the point, Croydon is just as much about people that live in Purley, Coulsdon, Sanderstead and Selsdon as people that live in Upper Norwood, Bensham Manor, New Addington and Broad Green. It is beginning to look like the Fairfield ward is really up and coming judging by the new building. Try going to the White Bear (Fickleshole) or The Fox (Coulsdon Common). We don't have to wallow in the sh*t bits and I really don't recommend Broad Green at night. That's a part of living in Croydon, being street smart and choosing your lifestyle. And by the way, I have had some cracking times in Sheffield but I was always aware I didn't know the places to avoid and had to be cautious.
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| crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 10 Sep 15 11.51am |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 09 Sep 2015 9.44pm
Quote crystal balls at 09 Sep 2015 9.31pm
Except for a noisy minority, the Tories have always been very pro EU. I don't think that more than one or two of any Tory cabinet in living memory have ever been anti EU; some of the party membership have, but they have largely jumped ship to the UKIP fringes now. Most Tories in the post-war world have been of the "one nation" variety, right of centre but pragmatic in their views on topics like people coming to the UK, rather than knee-jerk anti foreigners per se. They are aware that as the UK population ages we need people of working age to replace the retirees and pay taxes necessary to keep UK plc in business. That's not left or right wing; it's being pragmatic.
This.....We need working age people....Hang on....How is this solving the problem?.....Do these 'people of working age' not get old then? Does this rising tide of people not require all the same requirements that everyone else needs? All the argument results in is a situation like a cocaine addict finding that he needs bigger and bigger hits to satisfy the craving...The more you grow the population the more older people will result.....The more larger amounts of younger people you need to support them.....You can grow the population but you can't grow more land.....So the whole line of reasoning is a busted flush. As for the Tory party....I think you're way off.....The pro EU group are very much outnumbered....problem is the PM is one of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2015 9.47pm)
Within the next 10-15 years the number of over 65 and under 20s in the UK will far outnumber the working population. If we do not have more people of working age paying taxes and keeping the economy running we will be faced with a bankrupt nation. This isn't something we can ignore, it will directly affect everyone, especially everyone who is now over 30. The situation will continue for a number of years (probably around 20 or so) until the demographics will probably turn around, due to the increasing birthrate in the last few years (assuming this continues). From the 50s through to the 80s we had a very large number of workers come to the UK from abroad. Some remain here, some have returned to Ireland, Australia, South Africa or the West Indies. The population in the UK has increased from around 52m in the late 50's to 66m now. In the same period the world population has increased from around 3bn to 6.8bn. It would be unreasonable to exclude the UK from any population increase, and the country has a far lower population density of inhabitable land than most other comparable countries, let alone places like Bangladesh, Hong Kong or Japan. And the Tories are supporters of business; they are largely pro-EU as this is seen by them as best for businesses. Sorry if you don't agree, but they will be campaigning for "in" at the referendum.
I used to be immortal |
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 10 Sep 15 12.02pm |
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Quote crystal balls at 10 Sep 2015 11.51am
Quote Stirlingsays at 09 Sep 2015 9.44pm
Quote crystal balls at 09 Sep 2015 9.31pm
Except for a noisy minority, the Tories have always been very pro EU. I don't think that more than one or two of any Tory cabinet in living memory have ever been anti EU; some of the party membership have, but they have largely jumped ship to the UKIP fringes now. Most Tories in the post-war world have been of the "one nation" variety, right of centre but pragmatic in their views on topics like people coming to the UK, rather than knee-jerk anti foreigners per se. They are aware that as the UK population ages we need people of working age to replace the retirees and pay taxes necessary to keep UK plc in business. That's not left or right wing; it's being pragmatic.
This.....We need working age people....Hang on....How is this solving the problem?.....Do these 'people of working age' not get old then? Does this rising tide of people not require all the same requirements that everyone else needs? All the argument results in is a situation like a cocaine addict finding that he needs bigger and bigger hits to satisfy the craving...The more you grow the population the more older people will result.....The more larger amounts of younger people you need to support them.....You can grow the population but you can't grow more land.....So the whole line of reasoning is a busted flush. As for the Tory party....I think you're way off.....The pro EU group are very much outnumbered....problem is the PM is one of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2015 9.47pm)
Within the next 10-15 years the number of over 65 and under 20s in the UK will far outnumber the working population. If we do not have more people of working age paying taxes and keeping the economy running we will be faced with a bankrupt nation. This isn't something we can ignore, it will directly affect everyone, especially everyone who is now over 30. The situation will continue for a number of years (probably around 20 or so) until the demographics will probably turn around, due to the increasing birthrate in the last few years (assuming this continues). From the 50s through to the 80s we had a very large number of workers come to the UK from abroad. Some remain here, some have returned to Ireland, Australia, South Africa or the West Indies. The population in the UK has increased from around 52m in the late 50's to 66m now. In the same period the world population has increased from around 3bn to 6.8bn. It would be unreasonable to exclude the UK from any population increase, and the country has a far lower population density of inhabitable land than most other comparable countries, let alone places like Bangladesh, Hong Kong or Japan. And the Tories are supporters of business; they are largely pro-EU as this is seen by them as best for businesses. Sorry if you don't agree, but they will be campaigning for "in" at the referendum.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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Kermit8  Hevon 10 Sep 15 12.04pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 09 Sep 2015 9.44pm
Quote crystal balls at 09 Sep 2015 9.31pm
Except for a noisy minority, the Tories have always been very pro EU. I don't think that more than one or two of any Tory cabinet in living memory have ever been anti EU; some of the party membership have, but they have largely jumped ship to the UKIP fringes now. Most Tories in the post-war world have been of the "one nation" variety, right of centre but pragmatic in their views on topics like people coming to the UK, rather than knee-jerk anti foreigners per se. They are aware that as the UK population ages we need people of working age to replace the retirees and pay taxes necessary to keep UK plc in business. That's not left or right wing; it's being pragmatic.
This.....We need working age people....Hang on....How is this solving the problem?.....Do these 'people of working age' not get old then? Does this rising tide of people not require all the same requirements that everyone else needs? All the argument results in is a situation like a cocaine addict finding that he needs bigger and bigger hits to satisfy the craving...The more you grow the population the more older people will result.....The more larger amounts of younger people you need to support them.....You can grow the population but you can't grow more land.....So the whole line of reasoning is a busted flush. As for the Tory party....I think you're way off.....The pro EU group are very much outnumbered....problem is the PM is one of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2015 9.47pm)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 10 Sep 15 12.17pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 10 Sep 2015 10.45am
Blimey, apologies from both you and Matt. Like Matt said, we love you. But just to reinforce the point, Croydon is just as much about people that live in Purley, Coulsdon, Sanderstead and Selsdon as people that live in Upper Norwood, Bensham Manor, New Addington and Broad Green. It is beginning to look like the Fairfield ward is really up and coming judging by the new building. Try going to the White Bear (Fickleshole) or The Fox (Coulsdon Common). We don't have to wallow in the sh*t bits and I really don't recommend Broad Green at night. That's a part of living in Croydon, being street smart and choosing your lifestyle. And by the way, I have had some cracking times in Sheffield but I was always aware I didn't know the places to avoid and had to be cautious.
Beyond those borders you have areas which were very much identifiable by their individuality which was/is strong enough to be classed as places who have a Croydon link but they are not Croydon. I mean - 'the White Bear' - 'twas my drinking hole for a while but no-one really thought of it as a Croydon pub and I can't believe anyone would today 'cept for one....or maybe one Edited by Kermit8 (10 Sep 2015 12.20pm)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| johnfirewall 10 Sep 15 12.34pm |
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Mixed messages from Europe, even within the same country, from the same politicians with Merkel and others appearing so caring while on the other hand saying they're taking too many. I'm glad we've riled the Mayor of Calais again in taking refugees from camps in Syria rather than the ones who made it to France. Similarly disgusting mentality to those the other side of Europe who are either reinforcing their borders or shipping them all through to the next counry and undermines any good the French have done.
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