Now that's difficult....The borders of the 67 war was put up as the idea for the camp david settlement.

Israel and Fatah came very close with that.

Firstly, I respond to people in the manner in which they do to me. If I make a serious point and you respond with a pathetic jibe I'll return the favour. If you want to actually have a discussion then I'll reciprocate.

On to your point anyway. Of course I don't support Hamas, I don't support any organisation who's aim is not a peaceful one. Any defence of Palestine I give does not detract from this.

Similarly I don't think all of Israel is bad. I know there are plenty of Israelis who think what their government is doing is barbaric, and those I support.

As for your question, no, I understand that living in Israel, your life is constantly under a threat, which is admittedly mitigated by having one of the best defensive forces in the world as well as the fact that the weapons fired at you are laughable. I've seen more dangerous stuff go off in the Palace away end than has hit parts of Israel. But it is a threat that shouldn't be there nonetheless.

Why I consider myself pro-Palestinian is because, for me, the life they lead is no life at all. What kind of life is it where your kids are snatched from their homes at night? Where you are policed by a force actively oppressing you? Where you can't access certain places, purely because of your nationality, and are tried in courts with a conviction rate of well over 99%? People focus on the death figures, which are shocking, but actually life can be taken away in more ways than one. Having said that, when the firing on Gaza started the other day, I went to bed with 2 reported dead and woke up to hear the figure was over 100. I'm not an emotional person, but to think what they went through compared to my peaceful night's sleep made me well up I'm not ashamed to admit.

Thankfully, Israelis don't have to suffer from the above persecutions, but the fact that a nation state can enforce oppression on such a wide scale, in an area where the average age is 17, is a f*cking scandal. That we in the west support them is nothing short of abominable.

And as for your last paragraph, no I haven't been to Israel, because I don't have the time and money to trot off to the latest war zone I wish to form an opinion about. On the basis of impartiality, I assume you also went to Gaza and the West Bank to see what conditions are like there as well?

Edited by serial thriller (27 Jul 2014 9.10pm)

Thank you for that structured and full response Gusset.

You are just reinforcing the view that you are a bit dim.

Edited by matt_himself (27 Jul 2014 9.39pm)

Something similar to the camp david agreement that provided a bit more of a viable state......water rights being tricky.......Israel need air tight assurance that enabling this state wouldn't militarily back fire on them.

Right of return isn't going to work.....I don't see how that injustice can be corrected....Maybe some payment element.

If an agreement was reached it would mean civil wars for both sides.

Both sides have significant elements who are heavily invested in 'continual war'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jul 2014 10.34pm)

No, it's absolute bollocks. And the response was just a nod to your regular 2 word lefty bullsh it responses you are so keen on.
Why is Gaza in the state it is? Because of the actions of the current right wing Israeli government and those that went before it. Palestine has been living under a state of siege for many many years regardless of who is in power there. Not defending Hamas, as I'm sure you will accuse me of, but you obviously haven't read the whole thread- I suggest you do- but one cannot blame them for fighting back against their oppressors. The right in Israel want the holy land. They won't recognise Palestine as a sovereign state and allow them self determination. This is wrong.
I find it ludicrous that you intimate that the pictures we are seeing on social media is mere propaganda to raise funds for Hamas.
You are defending the indefensible in my eyes, which makes you just as culpable as those that continue to sell arms to the Israelis, for the genocide going on, for that is what it is.

One just hopes that the more moderate Jewish voices in Israel will be listened to and that Netanyahu and Co are tried for war crimes.

Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2014 10.36pm)

[Link]
Have a look at who voted for, against or abstained in this vote at the OHCHR for 'an independent, international commission of inquiry to investigate the conflict in the occupied Palestinian territories'.
I can't believe it won't happen until March 2015!