I'd suggest the action taken in Germany is very apt. It does bear resemblance to Nazi symbolism and therefore people are right to be outraged/concerned etc. It's completely acceptable in my eyes to take action whether you're German or not. It's an objective reality.

With equal measure, I'd suggest changing the colour of a nation's flag/national symbol, which is critical to it's symbolism, is something people have a right to feel strongly about. Again, an objective reality.

To dismiss one and not another is very telling. To dismiss concerns about altering a nation's symbol is, even in isolation, equally telling. I don't deny anyone their subjective opinion to not care or hold concerns about either, I don't too tough, but to attack others for voicing an opinion is intriguing at least. You're only exposing your own prejudice there, and it's prejudice against the English.

Edited by Nicholas91 (03 Apr 2024 6.19pm)

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Really?

A sportswear company make a shirt design where one squad number bears a slight resemblance to a Nazi insignia.

It is a total accident and in no way intended to convey anything other than the number 44.

Have we really reached the point where people are so limited of mind that they can't see it for what it is? Have we regressed that far?

I know that Nazis are a little more significant in Germany, but I'm sure the average German isn't that dumb.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 Apr 2024 7.15pm)

I am not though attacking anyone! I am disagreeing with their interpretation of what is happening. The only ones I am attacking are the right wing media who are feeding them misinformation and lies all the time.

To repeat, the flag has not been changed in any way. What is on the merchandise is not the flag. It’s symbolic if it’s anything. It’s been done many times before, so why the excitement this time?

If someone made and flew a Union flag with only its colours changed then I might understand why some people would get upset. Not this though. It’s not attacking the English in any way. It’s trying to sell them merchandise! It’s just the Mail +++ who pitch it as though it’s a national scandal. There’s where the prejudice is!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

There is an England shirt no. 18. Should we react to that?

That is my point Hrolf, it does resemble a Nazi insignia. What I’m saying is that because it does resemble Nazi insignia, intentional or not, I can understand what would be a perfectly logical stance to say ‘yeah, that’s not worked out well, best pull it as the last thing you want is Germans looking as though they resemble the Nazis.’ I’m not suggesting that it is or isn’t conspiratorial or agenda driven, it just seems quite an obvious move to amend it.

Interestingly however, when the Cross of Saint George is changed to have colours which resemble ‘woke’ symbolism , intentional or not, there’s equally some sort of narrative to say ‘this isn’t anything at all, just ignore it and if you do have a problem with it, you’re a right wing lunatic’. The cross is on the national kit and should be red on a white background, it’s not outrageous to wish for it to remain and be represented in that way.

I would think it common sense on both issues, regardless of how they came about, to say ‘let’s change that as it hasn’t panned out/does not bode well’. They have for one but not the other (as far as I’m aware). Maybe I’m mad though. Or maybe the Germans are readying for a new era of Nazism and we are being gaslighted into the acceptance of all things woke. One seems more likely than the other but that’s too far down a rabbit hole for me at this moment.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

So there are limits to the semiotics of football apparel. Good to know.