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Coutts VS Nigel Farage

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Jul 23 10.45pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

It wasn't 'tested' because it is absolute nonsesne.

I'm not arguing against myself, my position on both cases is that businesses and organisations and individuals should be able to do or not do business with whoever they like.


Edited by georgenorman (22 Jul 2023 10.07am)

The number of times I have read outrage in these threads about how people should be free to say whatever they like and that nobody has the right to stop them because it offends them.

If you went into a shop which supplies T-shirts and offers to print designs or messages on them, paid them their price and then wrote down your message as "Brighton are a bunch of w-nkers" would you accept the store owner giving you your money back because he is a Brighton supporter? Or tell him that freedom of speech is a precious right and it's his job to do what he is contracted to do? You have bought the shirt. He has offered to print it. Your shirt. Your words. His job.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Jul 23 10.56pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

One of the roles I held in my career was COO of Wealth Management / Private Clients for a global bank. Beneficial ownership was always one of the biggest issue for banks when onboarding new clients, particularly where Trust funds are involved.

As regulation and governance has increased so has the need for KYC refresh / periodic reviews. The Farage issue has no bearing on that at all. It's now become part of ongoing Compliance activity - or at least it should. Banks continue to be penalised for lax AML controls.

When it comes to Farage v Coutts, Farage was correct in his assumption that he was being debanked for his political views. So Coutts were happy enough to take his money in the first place and have painted themselves into a corner by their actions. They are in the wrong and they know it.

The wider picture is this ; Coutts, owned by Nat West - the renamed RBS Group. It's difficult to offer much positive comment on this organisation given its unsavoury recent history. I know there was a view in the City that promoting Alison Rose to CEO was part of a charm offensive to demonstrate what an inclusive, diverse institution they now are. But something at the core remains rotten, and Rose may well not survive this and a number of other issues that have surfaced.

I defer to your greater knowledge of Nat West/Coutts and what might happen to their CEO. The negative publicity surrounding this cannot have done them any favours so who-ever orchestrated it and handled it must be under great pressure.

That said I still believe they had the right to act as they did, even if they handled it badly. Deciding to "debank" someone like Farage, because of potential reputational damage, is just a hard-headed commercial decision. That doing it so carelessly has caused more damage than not doing so doesn't change that.

 


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cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Jul 23 6.06am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I defer to your greater knowledge of Nat West/Coutts and what might happen to their CEO. The negative publicity surrounding this cannot have done them any favours so who-ever orchestrated it and handled it must be under great pressure.

That said I still believe they had the right to act as they did, even if they handled it badly. Deciding to "debank" someone like Farage, because of potential reputational damage, is just a hard-headed commercial decision. That doing it so carelessly has caused more damage than not doing so doesn't change that.

I would ask why a bank would actually need to give a s*** about the politics of someone like NF. It would never affect the business as the other account holders are using it as ‘a bank’. This was a vanity decision which some there thought would get them a pat on the back and well done for your stand against that nasty nazi. Well as you are seeing elsewhere with the green bollox and push back on it, money is the driver of life and no one would have closed their account if NF was or wasn’t an account holder. The left or far left if it fits and the out there climate groups are an insidious lot who are determined to portray anyone who doesn’t agree with them as the enemy who need wasting. Well atm the rest of us are fed up and slowly the worm is turning. Coutts fell into their trap !


Edited by cryrst (23 Jul 2023 6.06am)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 23 Jul 23 6.41am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The number of times I have read outrage in these threads about how people should be free to say whatever they like and that nobody has the right to stop them because it offends them.

If you went into a shop which supplies T-shirts and offers to print designs or messages on them, paid them their price and then wrote down your message as "Brighton are a bunch of w-nkers" would you accept the store owner giving you your money back because he is a Brighton supporter? Or tell him that freedom of speech is a precious right and it's his job to do what he is contracted to do? You have bought the shirt. He has offered to print it. Your shirt. Your words. His job.

For a start, there is no outrage in my post.

I wouldn't care much about my custom being refused, I would probably find it amusing. I would simply find someone else who would accept the work and tell others to avoid the shop that turns down custom.

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jul 2023 6.49am)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 23 Jul 23 6.41am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

duplicate

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jul 2023 6.43am)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 23 Jul 23 6.46am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

another duplicate!

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jul 2023 6.47am)

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 23 Jul 23 6.47am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's untrue. Almost always these days when a vacancy occurs there are a number of suitable clients available and a choice has to be made. It would be the same if a cake baker could only make 10 cakes a week but had 50 people wanting them.

Serious question, Out of all the suitable candidates, how do you choose? Say 1 is transgender, 1 is gay, 1 is Muslim, 1 is from ethnic minority and several are natives of Cornwall. Surely by not accepting some of these, you can be accused of discrimination? The baker in your scenario may not choose the gay or transgender customer to have the cakes, could he be sued?

 

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YT Flag Oxford 23 Jul 23 7.56am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I would ask why a bank would actually need to give a s*** about the politics of someone like NF. It would never affect the business as the other account holders are using it as ‘a bank’. This was a vanity decision which some there thought would get them a pat on the back and well done for your stand against that nasty nazi. Well as you are seeing elsewhere with the green bollox and push back on it, money is the driver of life and no one would have closed their account if NF was or wasn’t an account holder. The left or far left if it fits and the out there climate groups are an insidious lot who are determined to portray anyone who doesn’t agree with them as the enemy who need wasting. Well atm the rest of us are fed up and slowly the worm is turning. Coutts fell into their trap !


Edited by cryrst (23 Jul 2023 6.06am)

I'm happy to be such a worm.

Where I live, the local Facebook noticeboard is bombarded by posts from a handful of annoying 'climate action' zealots. They got the parish council to declare a 'climate emergency' (in our village; population less than 2,000) and they are always banging on about enforcement of existing 'green' laws and campaigning for new laws to be introduced. One of them runs a shop where all the stock is said to be "sustainably sourced". It's BS, of course, because you could pick out virtually any item in the shop and drive massive holes through the sustainability claim. And it's a hobby in any case, funded by the hubby's high-flying (literally) job.

Anyway, she advertised for a new member of staff to work in the shop, and in the list of requirements for the role she included "must be physically active". So I dobbed her in to The Equality and Human Rights Commission, which agreed that the phrase was unlawful unless it could be "objectively justified". To cut an already long story short, she couldn't justify it, so had to re-advertise the post (already filled by then) and post a retraction wherever the advert had been displayed, including on Facebook.

I do love a good petard-hoisting!

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Jul 23 8.16am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by YT

I'm happy to be such a worm.

Where I live, the local Facebook noticeboard is bombarded by posts from a handful of annoying 'climate action' zealots. They got the parish council to declare a 'climate emergency' (in our village; population less than 2,000) and they are always banging on about enforcement of existing 'green' laws and campaigning for new laws to be introduced. One of them runs a shop where all the stock is said to be "sustainably sourced". It's BS, of course, because you could pick out virtually any item in the shop and drive massive holes through the sustainability claim. And it's a hobby in any case, funded by the hubby's high-flying (literally) job.

Anyway, she advertised for a new member of staff to work in the shop, and in the list of requirements for the role she included "must be physically active". So I dobbed her in to The Equality and Human Rights Commission, which agreed that the phrase was unlawful unless it could be "objectively justified". To cut an already long story short, she couldn't justify it, so had to re-advertise the post (already filled by then) and post a retraction wherever the advert had been displayed, including on Facebook.

I do love a good petard-hoisting!

There’s always a bigger fish

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 23 Jul 23 9.31am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's untrue. Almost always these days when a vacancy occurs there are a number of suitable clients available and a choice has to be made. It would be the same if a cake baker could only make 10 cakes a week but had 50 people wanting them.

But you’re arguing for the “Cab Rank” rule, where
Number of candidates doesn’t matter

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jul 23 9.57am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

I would ask why a bank would actually need to give a s*** about the politics of someone like NF. It would never affect the business as the other account holders are using it as ‘a bank’. This was a vanity decision which some there thought would get them a pat on the back and well done for your stand against that nasty nazi. Well as you are seeing elsewhere with the green bollox and push back on it, money is the driver of life and no one would have closed their account if NF was or wasn’t an account holder. The left or far left if it fits and the out there climate groups are an insidious lot who are determined to portray anyone who doesn’t agree with them as the enemy who need wasting. Well atm the rest of us are fed up and slowly the worm is turning. Coutts fell into their trap !


Edited by cryrst (23 Jul 2023 6.06am)

It's their ball, they can decide who gets to play with it. That anyone feels it's a poor decision is beside the point. It's not their business. If they believe that their reputation will be damaged then they have the right to take whatever action they believe is necessary. That they then used one of the account rules to engineer the desired result might be devious, and has proved counterproductive, but it's still their right. As it is to use discretion with others who also fail to meet the rules.

I don't see anything "left" involved. I see only commercial pragmatism. Which has been badly handled and handed Farage a propaganda victory.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jul 23 10.07am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

For a start, there is no outrage in my post.

I wouldn't care much about my custom being refused, I would probably find it amusing. I would simply find someone else who would accept the work and tell others to avoid the shop that turns down custom.

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jul 2023 6.49am)

I didn't say in yours! Just in these threads.

You wouldn't have any choice other than to do what you suggest unless you could find a politically motivated sponsor with deep pockets like the "Christian Institute", ready to push the argument all the way to the SC. Maybe one would emerge from among the band of self-righteous brothers who populate this place.

 


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