Let's see how the 5 remaining games turn out. We were 12th under PV after a tough set of fixtures, we remain 12th under RH, after an arguably easier set of games. Everyone seems to have forgotten the absolutely dire two final seasons of Roy's first stint in charge, totally abysmal and as bad as anything served up by PV this season.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (28 Apr 2023 8.41pm)

I was one of the first to criticise Roy and Ray for the turgid football played in the last 2 years of Roy’s previous tenure, it really was a hard watch.This time around it’s like they are a different management team, there is no comparison in performance except for perhaps his first season with us.

Having acknowledged that I’ve been wracking my brain to come up with the reason as to why the same manager can have two entirely different styles of play. The easy answer is of course the personnel however I don’t subscribe to the fact that our players were so bad in the last two seasons of his first stint that we needed to play the way we did.

If you looked at a comparison of that team and the team yesterday, then back then we had Wilf and Townsend out wide and now we have Wilf and Olise. We had Milivojevic, Schlupp, Kouyate and McArthur in midfield, now we have Milivojevic, Schlupp, Doucoure and Eze. In neither team did we have dynamic goal scoring strikers.

In reality there is very little difference between the teams, so maybe you have to look a bit harder at the reason for the difference in play and the only conclusion I could draw is by looking at Roy’s first season when he had Loftus Cheek and now when we have Eze, both similar sorts of players who can step up through the midfield and find the forward players. I wouldn’t say they are identical but they perform the same function.

I then wondered whether one player can have such a fundamental impact on a team and the only conclusion from team performances and results was yes.

For some reason Vieira wasn’t keen on Eze, probably because he couldn’t perform in a deep lying midfield role which we as fans know is is not where his strengths really are.

I do think therefore that the fundamental difference between Roy’s teams that play ultra defensive and those which play with attacking flair is having a midfielder or two that can drive at the opposition and link up play with the forwards. I would also say that Anderson has probably the best distribution of any centre half we have had which makes a difference.

I still haven’t seen this team under Roy play a top 8 team and so it’s difficult to make a judgment call on whether we have totally turned the corner but the signs are extremely promising. A Roy and Ray combination that play this style of football is no longer an issue for me, provided of course he tightens up on set piece defending.

Not sure if this rings true with anyone else, I’d welcome your thoughts.

I was one of the first to criticise Roy and Ray for the turgid football played in the last 2 years of Roy’s previous tenure, it really was a hard watch.This time around it’s like they are a different management team, there is no comparison in performance except for perhaps his first season with us.

Having acknowledged that I’ve been wracking my brain to come up with the reason as to why the same manager can have two entirely different styles of play. The easy answer is of course the personnel however I don’t subscribe to the fact that our players were so bad in the last two seasons of his first stint that we needed to play the way we did.

If you looked at a comparison of that team and the team yesterday, then back then we had Wilf and Townsend out wide and now we have Wilf and Olise. We had Milivojevic, Schlupp, Kouyate and McArthur in midfield, now we have Milivojevic, Schlupp, Doucoure and Eze. In neither team did we have dynamic goal scoring strikers.

In reality there is very little difference between the teams, so maybe you have to look a bit harder at the reason for the difference in play and the only conclusion I could draw is by looking at Roy’s first season when he had Loftus Cheek and now when we have Eze, both similar sorts of players who can step up through the midfield and find the forward players. I wouldn’t say they are identical but they perform the same function.

I then wondered whether one player can have such a fundamental impact on a team and the only conclusion from team performances and results was yes.

For some reason Vieira wasn’t keen on Eze, probably because he couldn’t perform in a deep lying midfield role which we as fans know is is not where his strengths really are.

I do think therefore that the fundamental difference between Roy’s teams that play ultra defensive and those which play with attacking flair is having a midfielder or two that can drive at the opposition and link up play with the forwards. I would also say that Anderson has probably the best distribution of any centre half we have had which makes a difference.

I still haven’t seen this team under Roy play a top 8 team and so it’s difficult to make a judgment call on whether we have totally turned the corner but the signs are extremely promising. A Roy and Ray combination that play this style of football is no longer an issue for me, provided of course he tightens up on set piece defending.

Not sure if this rings true with anyone else, I’d welcome your thoughts.

I agree with your point that we have not played a top eight team with Roy & Ray but as this is a Roy v Viera thread and certain pundits have stated that we would have been safe with Viera because we are only playing teams below us in the table. Under Viera did we not lose to Everton 0-3, Notthm Forest 0-1, Leicester a draw 0=0 ad a Cup defeat at home to Southampton 1- 2.

We clearly do need to see how we fare against Spurs and Fulham before making further judgement on the matter. However, Roy is NOT rigid in his style of play. Look back at some of his time at Fulham and West Brom. It's very much about the personnel available and how best to use them.

In you longer post you mention we had the likes of Townsend, PvA, Luka etc., all players past their best during Roy's final two years. Likewise Dann and Cahill were limited in the scope of their play when compared with Andersen and Guehi. In our recent few games, the inclusion of Johnstone has added a whole new dimension with his array of options when distributing the ball. This was most noticeable in the two most recent games when his kicks more often than not found a Palace player. Having a keeper who can distribute the ball accurately is a big plus. Guaita, for all his shot stopping isn't in the same category.

IMHO the current squad is significantly superior to one that Roy had to use in his final two years - something that he himself has acknowledged in press conferences and he should know.