National Rejoin March September 10th

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National Rejoin March September 10th

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steeleye20 Croydon 23 Aug 22 5.45pm
Tut tut! Jeremy was completely right as events have shown. We would probably not have left the EU at all imo, but at least the public would have had their say on a new brexit deal. Britain is not working away from the EU.
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steeleye20

Croydon 23 Aug 22 5.45pm

Tut tut!

Jeremy was completely right as events have shown.

We would probably not have left the EU at all imo, but at least the public would have had their say on a new brexit deal.

Britain is not working away from the EU.

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Matov 23 Aug 22 5.54pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Tut tut! Jeremy was completely right as events have shown. We would probably not have left the EU at all imo, but at least the public would have had their say on a new brexit deal. Britain is not working away from the EU. But nobody wanted a second referendum. That was the point. Electoral suicide. You might be able to make all kinds of arguments now about the economic policies being pushed in both the 2017 and the 2019 manifesto's but that second referendum policy was beyond insane. Utterly mental given the constituency breakdown of the 2016 referendum. That is the point. In 2017, Corbyn pulled off a minor electoral miracle. In 2019, he imploded. What was the primary policy difference? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Aug 22 5.54pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Tut tut!

Jeremy was completely right as events have shown.

We would probably not have left the EU at all imo, but at least the public would have had their say on a new brexit deal.

Britain is not working away from the EU.

But nobody wanted a second referendum. That was the point. Electoral suicide. You might be able to make all kinds of arguments now about the economic policies being pushed in both the 2017 and the 2019 manifesto's but that second referendum policy was beyond insane. Utterly mental given the constituency breakdown of the 2016 referendum.

That is the point. In 2017, Corbyn pulled off a minor electoral miracle. In 2019, he imploded. What was the primary policy difference?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.30pm
Originally posted by HKOwen The European commission promulgates laws which become law in member states, that is a fact not an opinion. The governmental powers of the Commission have been such that some, including former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, have suggested changing its name to the "European Government", calling the present name of the Commission "ridiculous", likening it to a misnomer. The members of the Commission are not voted for by the electorate of the member states, as the case when the UK was a member. Your post certainly has a demonstration of ignorance, your own. Edited by HKOwen (23 Aug 2022 3.25pm) Only because our Parliament delegated that responsibility. The decision was ours. We delegated to our Parliament, and they moved it on. The Commission decide nothing without the approval of elected representatives. They possess no independent power. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.30pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

The European commission promulgates laws which become law in member states, that is a fact not an opinion.

The governmental powers of the Commission have been such that some, including former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, have suggested changing its name to the "European Government", calling the present name of the Commission "ridiculous", likening it to a misnomer.

The members of the Commission are not voted for by the electorate of the member states, as the case when the UK was a member.

Your post certainly has a demonstration of ignorance, your own.

Edited by HKOwen (23 Aug 2022 3.25pm)

Only because our Parliament delegated that responsibility. The decision was ours. We delegated to our Parliament, and they moved it on.

The Commission decide nothing without the approval of elected representatives. They possess no independent power.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.34pm
Originally posted by martin2412 In 1971 I was too young to vote us in, but by 1981 I was old enough to vote us out, but didn't get the opportunity for another 35 years. What a bloody stupid statement that those too young to vote then, may now vote for a different outcome. Tough. Facts aren’t stupid. I don’t want another vote as I want our MPs to do what we pay them to do. But if we must the demographics mean that you must expect a different result. One person’s vote either way isn’t going to make any difference. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.34pm

Originally posted by martin2412

In 1971 I was too young to vote us in, but by 1981 I was old enough to vote us out, but didn't get the opportunity for another 35 years.

What a bloody stupid statement that those too young to vote then, may now vote for a different outcome. Tough.

Facts aren’t stupid. I don’t want another vote as I want our MPs to do what we pay them to do. But if we must the demographics mean that you must expect a different result. One person’s vote either way isn’t going to make any difference.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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georgenorman 23 Aug 22 6.37pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Only because our Parliament delegated that responsibility. The decision was ours. We delegated to our Parliament, and they moved it on. The Commission decide nothing without the approval of elected representatives. They possess no independent power. You are talking nonsense - not for the first time. The unelected EU Commission is the sole proposer and framer of EU law. MEPs can vote against a proposed law, but in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs cannot propose laws, it is the MEPs who can 'decide nothing', they have no real power.
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georgenorman

23 Aug 22 6.37pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Only because our Parliament delegated that responsibility. The decision was ours. We delegated to our Parliament, and they moved it on.

The Commission decide nothing without the approval of elected representatives. They possess no independent power.

You are talking nonsense - not for the first time.
The unelected EU Commission is the sole proposer and framer of EU law. MEPs can vote against a proposed law, but in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs cannot propose laws, it is the MEPs who can 'decide nothing', they have no real power.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.40pm
Originally posted by Matov But nobody wanted a second referendum. That was the point. Electoral suicide. You might be able to make all kinds of arguments now about the economic policies being pushed in both the 2017 and the 2019 manifesto's but that second referendum policy was beyond insane. Utterly mental given the constituency breakdown of the 2016 referendum. That is the point. In 2017, Corbyn pulled off a minor electoral miracle. In 2019, he imploded. What was the primary policy difference? . Lots of people wanted a second vote! Not me. I wanted our MPs to do their job and vote with their consciences. Collectively they knew Brexit was a mistake and that the “deal” was unwise. “Getting Brexit done” was great marketing (credit where it’s due) as people were just tired of the arguments, but we ought not run a country via slogans. Look where it has got us! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.40pm

Originally posted by Matov

That is the point. In 2017, Corbyn pulled off a minor electoral miracle. In 2019, he imploded. What was the primary policy difference?

Lots of people wanted a second vote! Not me. I wanted our MPs to do their job and vote with their consciences. Collectively they knew Brexit was a mistake and that the “deal” was unwise.

“Getting Brexit done” was great marketing (credit where it’s due) as people were just tired of the arguments, but we ought not run a country via slogans.

Look where it has got us!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.48pm
Originally posted by georgenorman You are talking nonsense - not for the first time. The unelected EU Commission is the sole proposer and framer of EU law. MEPs can vote against a proposed law, but in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs cannot propose laws, it is the MEPs who can 'decide nothing', they have no real power. Proposing and framing are delegated tasks. Nothing gets enacted without the approval of both the Council and Parliament, who can dismiss the Commission. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 6.48pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Proposing and framing are delegated tasks. Nothing gets enacted without the approval of both the Council and Parliament, who can dismiss the Commission.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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georgenorman 23 Aug 22 6.56pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Proposing and framing are delegated tasks. Nothing gets enacted without the approval of both the Council and Parliament, who can dismiss the Commission. Who delegates, certainly not the elected MEPs? The EU itself states: "The European Commission is responsible for planning, preparing and proposing new European laws. It has the right to do this on its own initiative." Edited by georgenorman (23 Aug 2022 6.58pm)
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georgenorman

23 Aug 22 6.56pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Proposing and framing are delegated tasks. Nothing gets enacted without the approval of both the Council and Parliament, who can dismiss the Commission.

Who delegates, certainly not the elected MEPs?
The EU itself states: "The European Commission is responsible for planning, preparing and proposing new European laws. It has the right to do this on its own initiative."

Edited by georgenorman (23 Aug 2022 6.58pm)

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Aug 22 7.42pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle . Lots of people wanted a second vote! Not me. I wanted our MPs to do their job and vote with their consciences. Collectively they knew Brexit was a mistake and that the “deal” was unwise. “Getting Brexit done” was great marketing (credit where it’s due) as people were just tired of the arguments, but we ought not run a country via slogans. Look where it has got us! For the many not the few. Well it appears the few were feckless and workshy or immigrants. Slogans rule as it showed.
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Aug 22 7.42pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Lots of people wanted a second vote! Not me. I wanted our MPs to do their job and vote with their consciences. Collectively they knew Brexit was a mistake and that the “deal” was unwise.

“Getting Brexit done” was great marketing (credit where it’s due) as people were just tired of the arguments, but we ought not run a country via slogans.

Look where it has got us!

For the many not the few. Well it appears the few were feckless and workshy or immigrants. Slogans rule as it showed.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 8.49pm
Originally posted by georgenorman Who delegates, certainly not the elected MEPs? The EU itself states: "The European Commission is responsible for planning, preparing and proposing new European laws. It has the right to do this on its own initiative." Edited by georgenorman (23 Aug 2022 6.58pm) That doesn’t mean it has the responsibility to enact them does it? It’s expected to do the leg work and it also overseas the implementation into National laws. That’s inevitable in the kind of organisation that has so many members. The decision making rests with the democratically elected representatives. Making sure that the proposed legislation gets approved depends on the Commissions prior work It’s far from perfect, but not is ours or any other. It’s whether, on balance, it serves. I guess we disagree on that! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Aug 22 8.49pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Edited by georgenorman (23 Aug 2022 6.58pm)

That doesn’t mean it has the responsibility to enact them does it?

It’s expected to do the leg work and it also overseas the implementation into National laws. That’s inevitable in the kind of organisation that has so many members.

The decision making rests with the democratically elected representatives. Making sure that the proposed legislation gets approved depends on the Commissions prior work

It’s far from perfect, but not is ours or any other. It’s whether, on balance, it serves.

I guess we disagree on that!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Aug 22 9.15pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's political posturing, which can change rapidly if it is seen to be necessary. Did a majority want us out? A tiny majority who voted did, but that's not everyone, especially those too young to vote then, but could now. In any case, things change. Experiences teach lessons. People accept they made wrong decisions, which we all do. The beauty of democracy is nothing is ever cast in stone forever. Make a mistake and you can correct it. In time, we will. Perhaps not now, but we will. No mistake has been made. In fact, none of the doom and gloom that you claimed would result from Brexit has occurred. We have just had a pandemic and a war in Europe which has caused economic turbulence, but Brexit has only been a positive. It is only feeble minded, defeatist, anti British half wits who still want to return us to a one way road to federalism and reduced control over our own destiny.
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Aug 22 9.15pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's political posturing, which can change rapidly if it is seen to be necessary.

Did a majority want us out? A tiny majority who voted did, but that's not everyone, especially those too young to vote then, but could now.

In any case, things change. Experiences teach lessons. People accept they made wrong decisions, which we all do.

The beauty of democracy is nothing is ever cast in stone forever. Make a mistake and you can correct it.

In time, we will. Perhaps not now, but we will.

No mistake has been made. In fact, none of the doom and gloom that you claimed would result from Brexit has occurred.

We have just had a pandemic and a war in Europe which has caused economic turbulence, but Brexit has only been a positive.

It is only feeble minded, defeatist, anti British half wits who still want to return us to a one way road to federalism and reduced control over our own destiny.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 23 Aug 22 9.16pm
Originally posted by Matov Maybe if the man had shown some balls back in November 2018 and sacked Starmer, as he should have, when he went against agreed Cabinet policy over a second referendum, then the world would be very different. But he did not. When push came to the shove, no matter what you might think about Corybn, he failed to actually stand up for what he believed in when it truly mattered. Sitting on the back-benches and spouting off is easy. But when it came to do so when he was in a position of authority, he caved in. The man had no spine. He would have been an appalling Prime Minister. Yeah, probably Matov, just not as bad as the bungle and his cabinet!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 23 Aug 22 9.16pm

Originally posted by Matov

Maybe if the man had shown some balls back in November 2018 and sacked Starmer, as he should have, when he went against agreed Cabinet policy over a second referendum, then the world would be very different.

But he did not. When push came to the shove, no matter what you might think about Corybn, he failed to actually stand up for what he believed in when it truly mattered. Sitting on the back-benches and spouting off is easy. But when it came to do so when he was in a position of authority, he caved in.

The man had no spine. He would have been an appalling Prime Minister.

Yeah, probably Matov, just not as bad as the bungle and his cabinet!

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