Interesting Brexit read

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Interesting Brexit read

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 May 21 10.35am
Originally posted by Helmet46 So you really bother me. You have nothing positive to say about our country and reading your posts just drags me down. We are all in this COVID thing and some countries have reacted better than others. Our response was initially poor and horrific mistakes were made again in the winter. There is no denying that. We have to learn and make the best of this going forwards and the vaccination program over here is a success. Hopefully that’s the start! We need to applaud our successes as much as we must be hard on our failures. Your constant negativity towards our country is simply a drag, I’ve been to many places, seen the world etc but that doesn’t give me licence to patronise or be arrogant - especially as I have no idea what my fellow fans and debaters have done, have been or have seen. Brexit is interesting. I’m rather pleased we left regardless now I have seen the behaviour of the EU throughout the last few months. I suspect that without the U.K. offering balance (and some may say being a continual pain in the neck) within the EU, then some of the smaller nations may start getting twitchy about remaining but it will be interesting to see. Completely agree. Everything the bloke says is negative and confrontational. Turns up and picks arguments with posters. I don’t care if I agree or don’t with people in here but to constantly argue is quite depressing. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 May 21 10.35am

Originally posted by Helmet46

So you really bother me. You have nothing positive to say about our country and reading your posts just drags me down. We are all in this COVID thing and some countries have reacted better than others. Our response was initially poor and horrific mistakes were made again in the winter. There is no denying that. We have to learn and make the best of this going forwards and the vaccination program over here is a success. Hopefully that’s the start! We need to applaud our successes as much as we must be hard on our failures.
Your constant negativity towards our country is simply a drag, I’ve been to many places, seen the world etc but that doesn’t give me licence to patronise or be arrogant - especially as I have no idea what my fellow fans and debaters have done, have been or have seen.
Brexit is interesting. I’m rather pleased we left regardless now I have seen the behaviour of the EU throughout the last few months. I suspect that without the U.K. offering balance (and some may say being a continual pain in the neck) within the EU, then some of the smaller nations may start getting twitchy about remaining but it will be interesting to see.

Completely agree. Everything the bloke says is negative and confrontational. Turns up and picks arguments with posters.

I don’t care if I agree or don’t with people in here but to constantly argue is quite depressing.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Matov 04 May 21 11.01am
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle To answer your question of why all the gloom, I’d say it’s a combination of being a sore looser and unable to admit they may be wrong. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (04 May 2021 10.33am) You have to understand that for many on the Remoan side of the fence, until Brexit came along they had it all their own way. More and more progressive BS, deeper and deeper integration into the EU and effectively become much, much stronger in their European identity. There is a great quote from one of the primary movers behind the creation of the Italian state in the 19th century that goes along the lines of 'Now we have built Italy, we must create Italians' which I think is relevant to the EU. It sort to create an effective nation-state, with its own anthem and flag and so on, and then by way of a variety of programmes, sort to create a European elite. Problem is that the British working classes failed to get the memo. Just dismissed as people from whom the Left expected their votes but not their opinions. So we have a small, but bloody powerful, group of people who genuinely believe Brexit 'stole' something from them. Hence the bitterness. I confess, I saw the importance of identity on the Leave side but never did I appreciate how important it was to the Remainers as well. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

04 May 21 11.01am

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

To answer your question of why all the gloom, I’d say it’s a combination of being a sore looser and unable to admit they may be wrong.

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (04 May 2021 10.33am)

You have to understand that for many on the Remoan side of the fence, until Brexit came along they had it all their own way. More and more progressive BS, deeper and deeper integration into the EU and effectively become much, much stronger in their European identity.

There is a great quote from one of the primary movers behind the creation of the Italian state in the 19th century that goes along the lines of 'Now we have built Italy, we must create Italians' which I think is relevant to the EU. It sort to create an effective nation-state, with its own anthem and flag and so on, and then by way of a variety of programmes, sort to create a European elite. Problem is that the British working classes failed to get the memo. Just dismissed as people from whom the Left expected their votes but not their opinions.

So we have a small, but bloody powerful, group of people who genuinely believe Brexit 'stole' something from them. Hence the bitterness.

I confess, I saw the importance of identity on the Leave side but never did I appreciate how important it was to the Remainers as well.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 11.17am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Why all the gloom? “There is no impending disaster! There is a challenge to overcome, which we will rise to and eventually succeed in handling. Sitting at keyboards moaning won't achieve anything at all. Playing a blame game is pointless. Anyone can do that and point fingers at all kinds of things they believe have been political mistakes...We need to move on and accept what is and also what can practically, legally and morally be done about it. We need to think positively and find ways to turn what looks to you like a disaster into an opportunity. Optimism will always triumph over pessimism, given the right environment” W. Eagle - 26.4.21 That was in response to comments about the number of immigrants in the country and the completely impractical desire to send them "home". That's very different to a situation like Brexit which is one which could, in time, be reversed and in the meantime threatens the integrity of the United Kingdom. I don't have any "gloom" over Brexit! I don't sit shedding tears into my coffee. I recognise the reality of where we are, despite believing it was a very stupid thing to do and one which was handled in a totally inappropriate way. My efforts are 100% positive. If that means getting people to realise what a mistake it was, then that's a positive step towards correcting it. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 11.17am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Why all the gloom?

“There is no impending disaster! There is a challenge to overcome, which we will rise to and eventually succeed in handling.
Sitting at keyboards moaning won't achieve anything at all. Playing a blame game is pointless. Anyone can do that and point fingers at all kinds of things they believe have been political mistakes...We need to move on and accept what is and also what can practically, legally and morally be done about it.
We need to think positively and find ways to turn what looks to you like a disaster into an opportunity.
Optimism will always triumph over pessimism, given the right environment”

W. Eagle - 26.4.21

That was in response to comments about the number of immigrants in the country and the completely impractical desire to send them "home".

That's very different to a situation like Brexit which is one which could, in time, be reversed and in the meantime threatens the integrity of the United Kingdom.

I don't have any "gloom" over Brexit! I don't sit shedding tears into my coffee. I recognise the reality of where we are, despite believing it was a very stupid thing to do and one which was handled in a totally inappropriate way.

My efforts are 100% positive. If that means getting people to realise what a mistake it was, then that's a positive step towards correcting it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Spiderman Horsham 04 May 21 11.19am
Originally posted by Helmet46 So you really bother me. You have nothing positive to say about our country and reading your posts just drags me down. We are all in this COVID thing and some countries have reacted better than others. Our response was initially poor and horrific mistakes were made again in the winter. There is no denying that. We have to learn and make the best of this going forwards and the vaccination program over here is a success. Hopefully that’s the start! We need to applaud our successes as much as we must be hard on our failures. Your constant negativity towards our country is simply a drag, I’ve been to many places, seen the world etc but that doesn’t give me licence to patronise or be arrogant - especially as I have no idea what my fellow fans and debaters have done, have been or have seen. Brexit is interesting. I’m rather pleased we left regardless now I have seen the behaviour of the EU throughout the last few months. I suspect that without the U.K. offering balance (and some may say being a continual pain in the neck) within the EU, then some of the smaller nations may start getting twitchy about remaining but it will be interesting to see. What makes it more bizarre is that he doesn’t even live here ( apparently) Good post by the way Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 11.20am)
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Spiderman

Horsham 04 May 21 11.19am

Originally posted by Helmet46

What makes it more bizarre is that he doesn’t even live here ( apparently)

Good post by the way

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 11.20am)

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Orange1290 04 May 21 11.38am
Originally posted by Spiderman What makes it more bizarre is that he doesn’t even live here ( apparently) Good post by the way Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 11.20am) So what if I "don't live here"? I didn't realise this forum was only for UK residents only or did I miss that in the forum rules? I have experience from "living there" for years plus living elsewhere for years. I have friends and family in the UK who are angry and fed up with the flag waiving, vaccine nationalism, government lies and plenty of other related issues. So, someone disagrees with your opinion, live with it or stop posting comments. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 May 21 11.38am

Originally posted by Spiderman

What makes it more bizarre is that he doesn’t even live here ( apparently)

Good post by the way

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 11.20am)

So what if I "don't live here"? I didn't realise this forum was only for UK residents only or did I miss that in the forum rules? I have experience from "living there" for years plus living elsewhere for years. I have friends and family in the UK who are angry and fed up with the flag waiving, vaccine nationalism, government lies and plenty of other related issues. So, someone disagrees with your opinion, live with it or stop posting comments.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 04 May 21 11.42am
Originally posted by Matov You have to understand that for many on the Remoan side of the fence, until Brexit came along they had it all their own way. More and more progressive BS, deeper and deeper integration into the EU and effectively become much, much stronger in their European identity. There is a great quote from one of the primary movers behind the creation of the Italian state in the 19th century that goes along the lines of 'Now we have built Italy, we must create Italians' which I think is relevant to the EU. It sort to create an effective nation-state, with its own anthem and flag and so on, and then by way of a variety of programmes, sort to create a European elite. Problem is that the British working classes failed to get the memo. Just dismissed as people from whom the Left expected their votes but not their opinions. So we have a small, but bloody powerful, group of people who genuinely believe Brexit 'stole' something from them. Hence the bitterness. I confess, I saw the importance of identity on the Leave side but never did I appreciate how important it was to the Remainers as well. Good post and much I agree with. You mention however the British working classes not getting the memo. Rightly so in my opinion. It’s the working classes which have been effected most by wide scale EU immigration, forcing up house prices and rents whilst also stagnating wages. Why would they get on board? "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 04 May 21 11.42am

Originally posted by Matov

So we have a small, but bloody powerful, group of people who genuinely believe Brexit 'stole' something from them. Hence the bitterness.

I confess, I saw the importance of identity on the Leave side but never did I appreciate how important it was to the Remainers as well.

Good post and much I agree with.

You mention however the British working classes not getting the memo. Rightly so in my opinion. It’s the working classes which have been effected most by wide scale EU immigration, forcing up house prices and rents whilst also stagnating wages. Why would they get on board?

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Orange1290 04 May 21 11.45am
Originally posted by Badger11 UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India [Link] Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist. It's a start. Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month. The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms. Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB. [Link] "The EU is India's largest trading partner, accounting for €80 billion worth of trade in goods in 2019 or 11.1% of total Indian trade, on par with the USA and ahead of China (10.7%)." [Link] So, the EU has a population seven times the size of the UK but has trade with India worth around 70 times more in terms of revenue. Ok, make that 60 times more as the UK isn't part of that anymore. Doesn't make much difference in the huge difference in scale. Edited by Orange1290 (04 May 2021 11.46am) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 May 21 11.45am

Originally posted by Badger11

UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India

[Link]

Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist.

It's a start.

Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month.

The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms.

Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB.

[Link]

"The EU is India's largest trading partner, accounting for €80 billion worth of trade in goods in 2019 or 11.1% of total Indian trade, on par with the USA and ahead of China (10.7%)."

[Link]

So, the EU has a population seven times the size of the UK but has trade with India worth around 70 times more in terms of revenue. Ok, make that 60 times more as the UK isn't part of that anymore. Doesn't make much difference in the huge difference in scale.

Edited by Orange1290 (04 May 2021 11.46am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Helmet46 Croydon 04 May 21 11.55am
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Good post and much I agree with. You mention however the British working classes not getting the memo. Rightly so in my opinion. It’s the working classes which have been effected most by wide scale EU immigration, forcing up house prices and rents whilst also stagnating wages. Why would they get on board? Deleted - replied to the wrong poster. Edited by Helmet46 (04 May 2021 11.59am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 04 May 21 11.55am

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Good post and much I agree with.

Deleted - replied to the wrong poster.

Edited by Helmet46 (04 May 2021 11.59am)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 11.55am
Originally posted by Badger11 UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India [Link] Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist. It's a start. Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month. The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms. Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB. [Link] If the balance of trade means that a country exports more to us than they import from us, it stands to reason that they would be happy to continue on the same terms as previously. Not a lot of negotiation needed there. So India was a piece of cake. Australia will be more difficult but the long-standing Commonwealth and cultural ties make it easier especially as they will be hoping to export more to us. It's with the non-Commonwealth countries that the real tests lay. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 04 May 21 11.55am

Originally posted by Badger11

UK strikes 1bn trade deal with India

[Link]

Okay it's not a lot but getting a trade deal with India is notoriously difficult as they are very protectionist.

It's a start.

Expect to read of a trade deal with Australia next month.

The UK has now signed 60+ trade deals around the world. Most of these repeat deals already done by the EU but Remainers said this would not happen and we would not get the same terms.

Liz Truss has been doing an excellent job for Team GB.

[Link]

If the balance of trade means that a country exports more to us than they import from us, it stands to reason that they would be happy to continue on the same terms as previously. Not a lot of negotiation needed there.

So India was a piece of cake. Australia will be more difficult but the long-standing Commonwealth and cultural ties make it easier especially as they will be hoping to export more to us.

It's with the non-Commonwealth countries that the real tests lay.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Helmet46 Croydon 04 May 21 11.59am
Originally posted by Orange1290 So what if I "don't live here"? I didn't realise this forum was only for UK residents only or did I miss that in the forum rules? I have experience from "living there" for years plus living elsewhere for years. I have friends and family in the UK who are angry and fed up with the flag waiving, vaccine nationalism, government lies and plenty of other related issues. So, someone disagrees with your opinion, live with it or stop posting comments. Flag waving and vaccine nationalism - what a crock of sh*t. We are allowed to be proud of our country, we are allowed to display our national flags and we are allowed to be proud when we do something well. Just as every nation is. In my opinion, the EU is a bit of a cuckoo and is slowly sucking the life and national identities out of member countries. I never understood why, for example, a trading block needed a flag? Is that flag waving and is that OK? We all know where the EU is heading, the direction it’s taking and whether we were right or wrong to step away can only probably be decided in years, not months. Hopefully we’ll all flourish - the UK and the EU as they are our neighbours and our friends. That the EU were slow to start their vaccine program is not the fault of the UK. That ours started quickly and was run well is something to be proud of. Maybe, just maybe, if people genuinely don’t like it here and are only negative and critical, they may find that they would be happier living elsewhere? Oh and before you bang on about it - the EU did not export vaccines - private companies did so under contract.
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Helmet46

Croydon 04 May 21 11.59am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Flag waving and vaccine nationalism - what a crock of sh*t.
We are allowed to be proud of our country, we are allowed to display our national flags and we are allowed to be proud when we do something well. Just as every nation is.
In my opinion, the EU is a bit of a cuckoo and is slowly sucking the life and national identities out of member countries. I never understood why, for example, a trading block needed a flag? Is that flag waving and is that OK?

We all know where the EU is heading, the direction it’s taking and whether we were right or wrong to step away can only probably be decided in years, not months. Hopefully we’ll all flourish - the UK and the EU as they are our neighbours and our friends.

That the EU were slow to start their vaccine program is not the fault of the UK. That ours started quickly and was run well is something to be proud of. Maybe, just maybe, if people genuinely don’t like it here and are only negative and critical, they may find that they would be happier living elsewhere? Oh and before you bang on about it - the EU did not export vaccines - private companies did so under contract.

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Mapletree Croydon 04 May 21 12.05pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Only 20% less deaths! With a country as large as France I would have expected far less deaths than that. Guess we did better than we thought then No. We didn’t count care home deaths at first and Germany did
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Mapletree

Croydon 04 May 21 12.05pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Only 20% less deaths! With a country as large as France I would have expected far less deaths than that.

Guess we did better than we thought then

No. We didn’t count care home deaths at first and Germany did

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Mapletree Croydon 04 May 21 12.10pm
Originally posted by Spiderman I was trying to point out that every country have been counting deaths in different ways. I asked how Germany counted there numbers. [Link] Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.24am) Any death, irrespective of its cause, has to be testified by a medical doctor, who completes a certificate of death (Totenschein). Certificates of death differ between the 16 states, but include the same basic information. The RKI notes that all doctors have to indicate on the death certificate if the person who has died was infected with SARS-CoV-2, among other things, to alert other professionals dealing with the body
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Mapletree

Croydon 04 May 21 12.10pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

I was trying to point out that every country have been counting deaths in different ways. I asked how Germany counted there numbers.

[Link]

Edited by Spiderman (04 May 2021 8.24am)

Any death, irrespective of its cause, has to be testified by a medical doctor, who completes a certificate of death (Totenschein). Certificates of death differ between the 16 states, but include the same basic information. The RKI notes that all doctors have to indicate on the death certificate if the person who has died was infected with SARS-CoV-2, among other things, to alert other professionals dealing with the body

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