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Jordan robbed at gunpoint.
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  SW19 CPFC  Addiscombe West 23 Mar 18 2.23pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Can't disagree on anything there apart from the 'circumstances that make it easier/inevitable for these kind of people to end up stealing a watch from a wealthy orange man and his old dad.' Never inevitable mate. This is where we disagree then with my comments and you never saying you did say so. Not sure that does make sense, I disagreed with you implying that I viewed such behaviour as excusable, which i never said. Excusable is also very different from inevitable, a point I did actually make, unless you mean something else? It is where we differ. In fact I'd go so far as to think it is almost a truism. And my reasoning for 'inevitable' is that it's not theoretical. Things like this happen many times, every single day. People like this exist for a reason. As long as the conditions exist for some people to turn out this way, they will always turn out this way, and that is a fact. That's not to say they don't have choices, and there are of course many people that don't go down that path or manage to drag themselves out of it. However, when your'e at the bottom, your choices are extremely limited. And that only applies to the ones that you're making. I always think people make the fatal mistake here of thinking about what they'd do in their shoes and then comment. Makes no sense. Try living their life first then you'd be better placed to make that call. The very things you're judging them on have been instilled in you from a young age, probably because of a balanced upbringing with a support network of friends and family around you, constantly being reminded of right/wrong, role models etc. You get the point. Also – to effectively frame it as a binary choice is strange. If it was as easy as 'choose the right path and you will be good' then it would be an easy fix. Again, I feel it's always a version of the 'work hard an you'll be fine' argument. On the surface it makes sense, but delve a little deeper and surely it's clear that it's nowhere near that simple.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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mr. apollo  Somewhere in Switzerland 23 Mar 18 2.29pm |
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I think an insurance scam is likely here, a. it's a ladies watch and I found similar on the web for $16,000
Glad All Over |
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Attachment: | mr. apollo Somewhere in Switzerland 23 Mar 18 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by mr. apollo
I think an insurance scam is likely here, a. it's a ladies watch and I found similar on the web for ,000 Or even this one at 35k$ which is certainly not £100k
Glad All Over |
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| Casual Orpington 23 Mar 18 2.40pm |
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I thought that ‘it’s because there’s no youth clubs anymore and the kids haven’t got anything to do ‘ was the answer to any crime in London that’s committed by under 30s. Closely followed by ‘they haven’t got any positive male role models’.
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 23 Mar 18 2.57pm |
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Originally posted by Casual
I thought that ‘it’s because there’s no youth clubs anymore and the kids haven’t got anything to do ‘ was the answer to any crime in London that’s committed by under 30s. Closely followed by ‘they haven’t got any positive male role models’. Classic. Debates are useful If you actually take the time to read and digest the exchange from the beginning. If you'd done so, you'd see that the social club/role model was being used as an easy to refer to example, of which there are many, not an isolated root cause eg. 'It's all about the youth clubs'. If you'd like to go into the thousands of more complex socio-economic possibilities that cumulatively contribute to these kind of events, then please do let me know.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 23 Mar 18 3.06pm |
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Following on... It’s also worth noting that social mobility is more or less a fairytale in todays society. Why is that? Mainly because of what the Princes Trust calls 'Inherited opportunities', and I tend to agree. You might not think of your own morality and sense of right and wrong as anything other than ‘normal’, 'expected' or maybe not even anything to place a significant premium on but it is effectively simply another form of equity, just not in the financial sense. An ‘inherited opportunity’, much like the bank of mum and dad. The financial might be more impactful and easier to quantify, therefore it's easier to focus on points that relate to money/finance and not the thousands of other tiny choices or circumstances (some self imposed, others just imposed) that all help either maintain or elevate social status and therefore dictate the probability of your place in society, and for the purposes of this conversation the likelihood of you committing a similar crime to the one being discussed. This piece that I lifted this from is a good read. Most of it is obvious to most on the surface, but the detail, as ever, is sobering. Also so is this quote, which I think aligns quote well with your point of view… 'This week the Prince’s Trust reported on research it has carried out which tells us what we already know: social mobility doesn’t exist. Inevitably, there will be outliers, of whom I count myself, hauled out to prove this assertion wrong. “Look, over there, a used-to-be-poor person who’s not poor now! And there’s another!” Family and old friends will be lumped together as lazy or feckless or both: no-hopers who haven’t made the cut.' But this is the exception, not the rule. And it's not an exception because people can't be arsed, or they chose the easy option of a life of crime. It's because of circumstance and a clear lack of guidance, support, 'inherited opportunity' and so on. That's why it's inevitable that someone, somewhere will always be at risk of falling victim to a crime like this.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 18 3.10pm |
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SW19, sorry but I cannot see people shoving a gun in people's faces for their possessions as inevitable and neither do I see sociological factors making that inevitable either. That is evil and their choice. Their is a choice to use a gun. And they're doing this from 15, not when opportunities have completely disappeared.
COYP |
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| Casual Orpington 23 Mar 18 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Classic. Debates are useful If you actually take the time to read and digest the exchange from the beginning. If you'd done so, you'd see that the social club/role model was being used as an easy to refer to example, of which there are many, not an isolated root cause eg. 'It's all about the youth clubs'. If you'd like to go into the thousands of more complex socio-economic possibilities that cumulatively contribute to these kind of events, then please do let me know.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 18 3.17pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Following on... It’s also worth noting that social mobility is more or less a fairytale in todays society. Why is that? Mainly because of what the Princes Trust calls 'Inherited opportunities', and I tend to agree. You might not think of your own morality and sense of right and wrong as anything other than ‘normal’, 'expected' or maybe not even anything to place a significant premium on but it is effectively simply another form of equity, just not in the financial sense. An ‘inherited opportunity’, much like the bank of mum and dad. The financial might be more impactful and easier to quantify, therefore it's easier to focus on points that relate to money/finance and not the thousands of other tiny choices or circumstances (some self imposed, others just imposed) that all help either maintain or elevate social status and therefore dictate the probability of your place in society, and for the purposes of this conversation the likelihood of you committing a similar crime to the one being discussed. This piece that I lifted this from is a good read. Most of it is obvious to most on the surface, but the detail, as ever, is sobering. Also so is this quote, which I think aligns quote well with your point of view… 'This week the Prince’s Trust reported on research it has carried out which tells us what we already know: social mobility doesn’t exist. Inevitably, there will be outliers, of whom I count myself, hauled out to prove this assertion wrong. “Look, over there, a used-to-be-poor person who’s not poor now! And there’s another!” Family and old friends will be lumped together as lazy or feckless or both: no-hopers who haven’t made the cut.' But this is the exception, not the rule. And it's not an exception because people can't be arsed, or they chose the easy option of a life of crime. It's because of circumstance and a clear lack of guidance, support, 'inherited opportunity' and so on. That's why it's inevitable that someone, somewhere will always be at risk of falling victim to a crime like this. Social mobility hey. Social mobility by these gun threatening kids is expected and stolen to try to achieve it. There's been immigrants who've not actually achieved social mobility but I'll tell you something you know. They didn't put a gun in someone's face and now their offspring or their offspring may have achieved in life.
COYP |
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| Stuk Top half 23 Mar 18 3.19pm |
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Not having access to the bank of mum and dad, being less well off, or even poor doesn't make robbing people of their possessions acceptable. It still makes them c***s. We not talking about someone taking some food in order to live.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 18 3.21pm |
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Zero tolerance castration would bring an end to this.
COYP |
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 23 Mar 18 3.44pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Following on... It’s also worth noting that social mobility is more or less a fairytale in todays society. Why is that? Mainly because of what the Princes Trust calls 'Inherited opportunities', and I tend to agree. You might not think of your own morality and sense of right and wrong as anything other than ‘normal’, 'expected' or maybe not even anything to place a significant premium on but it is effectively simply another form of equity, just not in the financial sense. An ‘inherited opportunity’, much like the bank of mum and dad. The financial might be more impactful and easier to quantify, therefore it's easier to focus on points that relate to money/finance and not the thousands of other tiny choices or circumstances (some self imposed, others just imposed) that all help either maintain or elevate social status and therefore dictate the probability of your place in society, and for the purposes of this conversation the likelihood of you committing a similar crime to the one being discussed. This piece that I lifted this from is a good read. Most of it is obvious to most on the surface, but the detail, as ever, is sobering. Also so is this quote, which I think aligns quote well with your point of view… 'This week the Prince’s Trust reported on research it has carried out which tells us what we already know: social mobility doesn’t exist. Inevitably, there will be outliers, of whom I count myself, hauled out to prove this assertion wrong. “Look, over there, a used-to-be-poor person who’s not poor now! And there’s another!” Family and old friends will be lumped together as lazy or feckless or both: no-hopers who haven’t made the cut.' But this is the exception, not the rule. And it's not an exception because people can't be arsed, or they chose the easy option of a life of crime. It's because of circumstance and a clear lack of guidance, support, 'inherited opportunity' and so on. That's why it's inevitable that someone, somewhere will always be at risk of falling victim to a crime like this. I have now read this post four times and I still don't understand any of it.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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