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matt_himself Matataland 23 Jan 18 8.54am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Less than half of their revenue came from UK government, albeit UK government was their largest customer with close to half. The main problems were poor management of liquidity and their pension deficit. The company was profitable and increasing dividends year on year and paying large bonuses to execs. It was mismanagement and overreaching. They were still booking profits. It is arguable that the accounting wasn't fit for purpose, but their is little evidence that contracts from the UK government weren't profitable for Carillion. The deals with Carillion were still bad for the taxpayer and should never have been made in the first place. A Polly Toynbee opinion piece wouldn’t be biased, would it? It’s hardly the objective view to base an argument around. There is plenty of evidence on the ‘net that the government pushed outsourcers to the limits. Political agendas prevent clear view on this.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 5.19pm | |
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Seems that the directors paid top money and bonus payments to while neglecting to top up the pension pot, i think the shareholders did ok to, the con government should look to take back the money if they have any balls, make the directors sell there houses if need be, better that than a trip at her majestys pleasure as someone should be held accountable,,,and not the taxpayer!
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Stuk Top half 29 Jan 18 5.26pm | |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
Seems that the directors paid top money and bonus payments to while neglecting to top up the pension pot, i think the shareholders did ok to, the con government should look to take back the money if they have any balls, make the directors sell there houses if need be, better that than a trip at her majestys pleasure as someone should be held accountable,,,and not the taxpayer! You don't seem to understand what a limited company is. The shareholders who lost all of their investment did okay did they? And it won't be the taxpayer, it'll be the PPF whose finances are raised via a levy on pension funds and via investments of that.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jan 18 5.38pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
A Polly Toynbee opinion piece wouldn’t be biased, would it? It’s hardly the objective view to base an argument around. There is plenty of evidence on the ‘net that the government pushed outsourcers to the limits. Political agendas prevent clear view on this.
There are 2 options, either the government is callous and forces outsourcers into unprofitable deals and so threatens jobs and investors in those companies, or they provide profitable deals which are bad for the taxpayer as that's money being taken from the public purse and used to pay profits to private interests. The efficiency gain (if any) has not been shown to be value for money in either case.
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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 6.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
You don't seem to understand what a limited company is. The shareholders who lost all of their investment did okay did they? And it won't be the taxpayer, it'll be the PPF whose finances are raised via a levy on pension funds and via investments of that. Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund. It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 7.32pm | |
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Originally posted by pefwin
Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund. It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies. Exactly, the shareholders and directors were paid out over the years while they were neglecting the pension pot,,,but who knew? or cared?
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Stuk Top half 29 Jan 18 7.47pm | |
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Originally posted by pefwin
Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund. It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies. It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply. Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether.
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Stuk Top half 29 Jan 18 7.48pm | |
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Originally posted by croydon proud
Exactly, the shareholders and directors were paid out over the years while they were neglecting the pension pot,,,but who knew? or cared? The auditors, the pension trustees and the pension regulator all knew. Who else do you think should've been informed?
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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 7.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply. Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether. DB schemes are for ex teachers only, I'm afraid. [almost].
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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Stuk Top half 29 Jan 18 7.56pm | |
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Originally posted by pefwin
DB schemes are for ex teachers only, I'm afraid. [almost]. They and final salary schemes should be long gone. I'm leaning towards banning all company pension schemes of any type.
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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 8.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply. Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether. if its proven that a criminal act took place then the culprits should have to pay back the booty, just like a major drug dealer, and if that includes the property funded by the fraud, so be it, i imagine blue collar crime is ok in the con govt thou, just look at the uber scandal with dave, boris and georgie boy!
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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 8.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
They and final salary schemes should be long gone. I'm leaning towards banning all company pension schemes of any type. I disagree companies should be allowed to profile remuneration how they like but they MUST make good on their contractual promises. The next issue would be taxation. Edited by pefwin (29 Jan 2018 8.10pm)
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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