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Midlands Eagle 07 Nov 17 11.14am | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
the real question that needs answering is wtf is the WORLD going to do about it to bring all the corporations (forget about individuals for the time being) to book and pay tax when and where its due. How about whacking on import duty on products brought in from companies registered in tax havens. There are plenty of things that could be done if the Governments of the day have the will
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npn Crowborough 07 Nov 17 11.22am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's poor management on their behalf. Never saw the point of a degree if you have professional qualifications. Thing is always going to be, the people who take advantage and police the loopholes, are also the people who run and influence the country. A lot of MPs seem to take advantage of the situation, and that's a real problem - because they're also not likely to be wanting to change that situation. HMRC funding means they go after 'the easy cases' rather than the big boys who can afford to fight back. It's one of the only areas I can see very real benefits, regardless of your political hue, to funding heavily - so long as your extra funds return more in tax revenue that the expense in retrieving it, it ought to be a no brainer.
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npn Crowborough 07 Nov 17 11.30am | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Indeed, the celebrities are being used as a dead cat look at them argument so people don't look at corporations or people in power. The argument for the big corporates is that they bring employment etc to the country, but, as far as I can see, if they pay 40% tax rather than 2% (or whatever stupid figures many are getting away with) it's down to them whether they want to make 60% profits on a very large market, or walk away with nothing. In the case of coffee shops etc, if they walk away it would really be no great loss (more independent coffee shops on the high street would be great). Amazon would be harder to replace (simply due to buying power keeping prices down) but it can't be beyond the wit of man. The fact that some of the big boys have attempted to score brownie points through voluntary tax contributions is laughable - how the hell is tax voluntary for anyone?
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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Nov 17 11.41am | |
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Amazon Apple etc. whoever, if you don't pay the tax due we confiscate your assets with no compensation. Leaving? Here let us open the door for you. We will just take over everything you had with no compensation and employ just as many people who will be treated properly as in our modern car industry. Go back to your Trump coal fires.
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Mr Palaceman 07 Nov 17 11.46am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I disagree.......Perhaps in a system where there were enough jobs about that could provide a reasonable lifestyle for everyone this point would be arguable....though you run into problems with having enough money to provide for the weak, such as the elderly, disabled and the simple....what was it that Boris Johnson said? 16 percent 'of our species' have an IQ below 85 and only 2 percent have an IQ of 130 or more. I disagree with any tax idea that would, in effect, result in us going back to Victorian states of poverty. There simply doesn't exist a system where people born in council estates can work themselves into the middle classes in rates anymore than a trickle. Any number of practical blocks exist to stop that. The vast majority of people end their lives in the same social status they started in. This has very little to do with talent or ability and much more to do with life chances. Automation is and will adversely affect those who are poorer....though it is also coming for the white collar jobs as well. Tax systems that would widen inequality are only going to increase support for the pseudo communists we already have leading the left.....And essentially they will pursue polices that will result in the wealthy moving their money out and worsen life for the majority far more. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Nov 2017 4.45pm) Small government, for me is a principle, from where we are now it would take years of reform in all areas of government but you start with the principle as your foundation and work towards that principle over a sustained period of time until you achieve your goals. At the same time you work hard to protect what is already benefiting society. That should be what all governments do, imo. My personal view is that everyone is ultimately responsible for their own happiness and government or government type has little or nothing to do with this. Not to say that sh!t doesn't happen and governments can't mess you up but I personally try to minimise the level of influence that government has in my life and the lives of my family. It's fair to say that I have little regard for our current political class of any hue. I have little time for those who profess to work for others and yet serve no-one but themselves first. Those people are easily spotted and I don't give them a mandate by voting for them. I pay my tax by consent because I think it's a worthy thing to do and some taxation for the benefit of all is a good thing and although I pay in, I try not to take out but am grateful for institutions like the NHS being there when I need them. I also would never want a return to Victorian poverty, who would.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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npn Crowborough 07 Nov 17 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Amazon Apple etc. whoever, if you don't pay the tax due we confiscate your assets with no compensation. Leaving? Here let us open the door for you. We will just take over everything you had with no compensation and employ just as many people who will be treated properly as in our modern car industry. Go back to your Trump coal fires.
That's just the problem - the tax is not dues, but it damned-well should be! They have dedicated HMRC staff with whom they negotiate what they are willing to pay (if I understand correctly) - ludicrous. If you can find it online (not on iplayer currently) there was a great BBC documentary about it called "The Town That Took on the Taxman" where they took an entire high street in Wales full of independent shops and attempted to set up the same tax dodges that the big boys use (largely based around intellectual property rights IIRC - offshore company owned the name "fair tax town", all the shops were owners of the offshore firm, and all paid the offshore firm for the right to use the name, so profits in the UK were minimal and all profits were basically siphoned off to overseas havens with much lower tax liabilities. Really showed how the big boys do it and why the smaller shops just can't compete on an even playing field
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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Nov 17 12.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
How about whacking on import duty on products brought in from companies registered in tax havens. There are plenty of things that could be done if the Governments of the day have the will This is why it needs a concerted effort. they all know its an issue but no one wants to be brave enough to make a stand as the companies will simply bugger off elsewhere. The OECD needs to drive this through, followed by major nations implying economic/trade 'sanctions' on those that refuse.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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Pussay Patrol 07 Nov 17 12.37pm | |
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2 points i'd make is firstly, should the mega wealthy pay flat rate VAT as is intimated in the Lewis Hamilton example? why don't we ring fence such large luxury purchases and employ negotiators for HMRC to negotiate a fair rate? It's just that with wealth comes power, he can take his business elsewhere and people with wealth would have alot of leverage in a business deal. Maybe if the rate was negotiable people would be less inclined to avoid paying? Secondly, i'd be interested to know how much indirect benefit there is if a large corporation pay less tax? If say Apple and Google and the like keep more of their profits would that money boost stock values and therefore pension pots? Would there be more money for capex projects which boost future growth and in turn future prosperity, future jobs and future tax accruals ?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Nov 17 12.46pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
2 points i'd make is firstly, should the mega wealthy pay flat rate VAT as is intimated in the Lewis Hamilton example? why don't we ring fence such large luxury purchases and employ negotiators for HMRC to negotiate a fair rate? It's just that with wealth comes power, he can take his business elsewhere and people with wealth would have alot of leverage in a business deal. Maybe if the rate was negotiable people would be less inclined to avoid paying? He certainly can take his business elsewhere. Goodbye, good luck and f**k off, and enjoy your new nationality. The rate should be the same for everyone. No special exceptions, no loopholes, everyone earning above say 16k a year should make a contribution based on societies needs, not as little as they can. Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Secondly, i'd be interested to know how much indirect benefit there is if a large corporation pay less tax? If say Apple and Google and the like keep more of their profits would that money boost stock values and therefore pension pots? Would there be more money for capex projects which boost future growth and in turn future prosperity, future jobs and future tax accruals ? Me too. I have no problem with incentives and tax breaks, provided they stipulate direct criteria for qualification, and return a reasonable return on investment. Ok, this isn't a reliable source, but in the US some economic incentive plans in the US were showing a return of 7 cents for every dollar of state revenue (or a 93 cents per dollar loss) - Ok it was John Oliver so it has to be taken with a pinch of salt maybe. Corporations should only get tax breaks in return for specifically delivering on set targets like wages, job creation etc.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Nov 17 12.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
This is why it needs a concerted effort. they all know its an issue but no one wants to be brave enough to make a stand as the companies will simply bugger off elsewhere. The OECD needs to drive this through, followed by major nations implying economic/trade 'sanctions' on those that refuse. They can't, they're tied into Markets. Amazon is never going to stop business in the UK because they have to pay tax on UK profits, because they know that if they did, a smaller competitor would happily accept taking the tax hit, to be the primary UK provider for their services. Companies that sell products in the UK aren't going to write of a 65m person market place.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Nov 17 12.55pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
They can't, they're tied into Markets. Amazon is never going to stop business in the UK because they have to pay tax on UK profits, because they know that if they did, a smaller competitor would happily accept taking the tax hit, to be the primary UK provider for their services. Companies that sell products in the UK aren't going to write of a 65m person market place.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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Pussay Patrol 07 Nov 17 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
He certainly can take his business elsewhere. Goodbye, good luck and f**k off, and enjoy your new nationality.The rate should be the same for everyone. No special exceptions, no loopholes, everyone earning above say 16k a year should make a contribution based on societies needs, not as little as they can. You make an example of Hamilton but that doesn't solve the problem. Tax avoidance will still happen so how do you combat it? Surely better to have a system where we collect the most revenues we can, if people go to great lengths to get around it then there must something wrong with the system. If it means giving the super rich a tax break BUT we collect more tax revenue overall surely that is the best solution? It might grate with ordinary people but as I said before with wealth comes power
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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