Excellent post. Best so far this season.

Edited by You What (15 Aug 2017 9.05pm)

Our last season in the Championship, Freedman introduced a new style with us. We looked uncomfortable and started off with a pre-season defeat at Welling United, before losing our first 3 games included a 4-1 drubbing at Bristol City, plus a 4-1 at Preston in the cup. We were bottom of the league by the end of August.

We signed a couple of players who suited the system (Delaney, Bolasie, Moritz), went 14 games unbeaten and ended up promoted.

Let's wait until the end of the window and see who we get in. This time last year, we still had Bolasie and didn't have Benteke.

26th January 2010 - Enter Administration
2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough
1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds
7th June 2010 - CPFC2010 exchange contracts.

Let's AGREE TO DISAGREE

3:4:3 = survival, WITH A GROWING AND DESIREABLE ACADEMY

4:3:3 = possible survival, but eventual Bankcrupsy as we won't afford much more than hoof ball players.

COYP

School, SN.Juniors, SN High, Selhurst. 1st match 1972 CP 2 N. Utd 1. Thank you, John Jackson and Vince Hilair for brightening our darkest days. I moved to the west country in 1983. Always Proud and 'Glad All Over' to be a Palace Fan. ))

The big problem with "hoofball" is it doesn't commit opposition to making decisions they're uncomfortable with. If they know what's coming it gives defenders time to double team on the obvious target men. That's why Wilf usually has three defenders around him because they have nothing else to do. Also the distance of the passer from the target man means our cavalry arrives too late to support our more gifted players who become isolated.

There was little hoofball under Allardyce. Eventually a team that worked hard off the ball and attacked with pace and (critically) was strong from set pieces. The wins against Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool weren't a fluke.

Under Pardew we had a team that fvcked about with the ball in its own third before being panicked into a hopeful boot up the pitch and was rubbish from set pieces.

A very good post and alternative take from mine on what we’re doing and the premier league in general.

I suppose it’s a game of opinions and also what style you personally like watching. For me the Premier League used to be the best league in the world, by far, because it mixed the directness and high intensity that you speak of with flair, fantastic defending and some of the worlds best players. I don’t see that anymore and from what I can gather the Premier League is only the biggest from a commercial sense (and there’s no denying it is by far the biggest in this area), the quality of football at times from what are supposedly the best we have to offer is just so far away from bigger European clubs and there is no reason that should be the case with the type of money some of these teams have had at their disposal.

The majority of my mates and people I know prefer a fast paced, end to end, quick game and I think Monaco were possibly one of the best teams in Europe to watch last season with this type of style. But for me personally, and many call it boring, I’d rather watch a 2-1 tactical battle between 2 teams that are patient in possession, know how to dictate the pace and properly manage and understand a game over a 5-4 Liverpool Norwich where the defending is utterly atrocious and it’s just “you score we score”. To me that doesn’t give the Premier League the right to claim to be the best quality footballing league in the world, the Championship has been unpredictable and direct for decades but that doesn’t necessarily equal a higher quality of football at all. Germany’s a good example of a league with plenty of high quality direct and counter attacking teams so the style you speak of isn’t exclusive to the Premier League and it’s not necessarily just a tiki taka type team I’m talking about, I’m just highlighting the attitude in England we generally tend to have against any attempt to bring certain styles across and we deem it a failure before it is really even given a chance.

I hope Pep does well simply because I believe if City start dominating in England, then we will finally have a team that will seriously compete in Europe - for a long time we haven’t even been close. I think where you and I disagree is on the subject of teams winning things with a certain style (the Atletico’s and Juves of this world for example). My point is that the very best teams in the world consistently win and despite the fact that the stubbornness to adapt leads to spells of relative failure (take Barca at this moment in time), they’ve built something long term that means they will always recover. Of course they have money to spend on players such as Suarez and Neymar too, but relatively speaking they don’t blindly buy players in the way a Real Madrid or United do. The reason they win is because they have a philosophy, a belief in how the game should be played, a system that is 10x harder to simply suss than the others. This was the reason Pep was so highly regarded before he came to England. I remember Eider Gudjohnssen speaking about the difference between him and Mourinho and he basically said Mourinho would set up a team for each individual game they’d play whereas Pep believed if his system was followed to the T, there wouldn’t be many if any teams that would be able to stop them. He certainly got the better of Mourinho more times in Spain.

That’s the reason managers like him as you say “put system above anything else”. Because despite the fact they probably know it may cost them a few points iniitally and may stop an instant title for example - in the long run they believe they will build a better and more resilient club that is able to compete consistently. It's the same with giving young players a chance, sure they may cost you some points initially but they can also potentially be the best and most enjoyable investment a club can make.

Re Van Gaal - I remember when United were playing a possession based game in his second (or possibly third) season in charge. They were top of the league, but we decided as English fans and journalists that “no it’s not the United way”, “its boring”, “all they do is play sideways and backwards” ignoring the bigger picture as always. Fans started getting on his and the teams back, ex United players were in the press talking about how s*** it was to watch, the media were on him like a pack of hounds despite the fact that United were top because it was "boring". Inevitably, this lead to fans booing and groaning just like at Selhurst on Saturday and all of a sudden you could see players shying away from the ball, more reluctant to fully respect the managers system. They went to West Ham and you could instantly see the effect of all the media scrutiny about how you can and can’t play in the Premier League, and inevitably they started playing alot more direct etc. After the game what happened? The media complained that Van Gaal was playing too many long balls and interrogated him about the style of his play. Proof if you ever needed any that anyone who wants to bring a cultured approach to the league cannot win. Their form weirdly dropped from then on in and their style of play was pretty hard to identify for the rest of his time at United.

The point that I’m making above anything else is not to defend what de Boer may or may not be doing at Palace, not to say it will work and not to even say he will be the man to solidify us as a Premier League club. But you’re damn right that it irks me when fans moan and groan at players after 1 competitive game of football just becasue they are trying to play a way that the manager believes will bring us success, I heard fans doing this at 0-0. If we get to 10 games in and there is no sign of progress and we’re in all sorts of trouble then by all means SCREAM at Riedewald when he doesn’t play a long ball upto Benteke, but for now we need to get behind the team because regardless of the style you like, the one thing I know for sure and I think most would agree is that any system that is being attempted requires confidence above all else. Getting on the players back will do nothing but make them feel more under pressure in possession, less able to adapt to the style and less willing to play. Without the players being confident in the way they are playing and feeling backed by their own fans, you will never see long term success on the pitch.

This is what I’m trying to articulate, whether you agree that this is the right approach or not, by groaning every time a ball is played back to Hennessey you are literally already undermining the entire system before it’s even had a chance to prove flawed and we as fans will see it fail before it’s even been tried. I repeat, we should not underestimate the effect we have on the team as a whole.

I think in conclusion, with all this talk about European Giants etc. it’s worth me pointing out we are of course not Barcelona and I don’t ever expect us to even come close. But at some point we have to bring some form of an identity and tactical consistency to the club. Whether it’s Dutch possession or a more traditional English high intensity approach, this is not something that will be achieved over night, but if we are if we are serous about solidifying ourselves in the Premier League for the long term, it is in my opinion essential & getting on the players backs who are tasked with implementing the change of system, during their first game, at home, will never be anything but counter productive.

Edited by Mstrobez (16 Aug 2017 7.38am)

We're the Arthur over ere!