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 matt_himself  Matataland 10 Aug 17 7.55pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Push for more international sanctions, covertly sabotage North Korea’s missiles, provide defense systems to North Korea’s neighbors, and call on China’s leaders to do more to pressure Kim. [Link] But the nuclear cat was out of the bag a couple of years before he took office, so it's been a succession of failed efforts to corral NK over decades. So the missile programme hasn't accelerated since KJU's ascension in 2011? Obama could and should have done more. Saying the 'cat was out of the bag' years ago is plainly wrong. A tougher stance years ago could have stopped the progress, however Obama was s*** scared to confront NK and that contributed to the crap we are in now.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Aug 17 8.03pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Obama's foreign policy was weak and ineffective and we are now seeing the fruits of that. I actually prefer it when the super powers don't involve themselves too much in foreign affairs - North Korea may be an exception.
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Aug 17 8.06pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Push for more international sanctions, covertly sabotage North Korea’s missiles, provide defense systems to North Korea’s neighbors, and call on China’s leaders to do more to pressure Kim. [Link] But the nuclear cat was out of the bag a couple of years before he took office, so it's been a succession of failed efforts to corral NK over decades. They've been launching since 2006 I think.
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Ray in Houston  Houston 10 Aug 17 8.49pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
So the missile programme hasn't accelerated since KJU's ascension in 2011? No. It started under Il and has continued under Un. The same way the successful nuclear test in 2006 wasn't something that they cooked up that year. Originally posted by matt_himself
Obama could and should have done more. Saying the 'cat was out of the bag' years ago is plainly wrong. A tougher stance years ago could have stopped the progress, however Obama was s*** scared to confront NK and that contributed to the crap we are in now. The cat being out of the bag is clearly not wrong, because it's simply a fact. Once NK had a successful weapons test - to add to its biological, chemical and conventional weapons arsenal that was pointed directly at its close neighbours and our close allies SK and Japan - NK became all-but impossible to threaten. Trump's grand plan was to get China to fix it. A 10-minute conversation with President Xi had him bacjking off, admitting that China couldn't simply reign in NK. [Link] Quote
But in a recent interview, Trump acknowledged that the issue is, well, complicated. In a conversation with the Wall Street Journal, the president said he came into his first meeting with Xi convinced that China could curtail North Korea’s nuclear threat. Xi had to explain Chinese-Korean history to Trump, who then realized something important: “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he told the Journal. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power North Korea. … But it’s not what you would think.” 10 minutes... Edited by Ray in Houston (10 Aug 2017 8.51pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 17 9.05pm |
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It is quite clear that the weapons programme has accelerated under KJU: The state of the weapons programme today, where it is believed that NK recently possessed the technology to build nuclear warheads could have been stopped. The fact is, that Obama's foreign policy was non confrontational and this contributed to the problem. As for the 10 minute Trump call, you decide what you want to believe but it is quite clear that you are a rabid anti Trump supporter and won't listen to anything that could change your view of him or the situation he inherited from Obama.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 10 Aug 17 9.22pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
It is quite clear that the weapons programme has accelerated under KJU: The state of the weapons programme today, where it is believed that NK recently possessed the technology to build nuclear warheads could have been stopped. The fact is, that Obama's foreign policy was non confrontational and this contributed to the problem. As for the 10 minute Trump call, you decide what you want to believe but it is quite clear that you are a rabid anti Trump supporter and won't listen to anything that could change your view of him or the situation he inherited from Obama.
As for Trump's 10-minute reversal, those are Trump's own words. I'm not sure how my political leanings somehow influenced him to say them, but said them he did. Edited by Ray in Houston (10 Aug 2017 9.25pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 17 9.34pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
As for Trump's 10-minute reversal, those are Trump's own words. I'm not sure how my political leanings somehow influenced him to say them, but said them he did. Edited by Ray in Houston (10 Aug 2017 9.25pm) I said the weapons programme accelerated since KJU assumed power an di stand by that because it is a matter of record. Your political leanings refuse to accept that Obama did anything wrong by doing nothing and you are overly critical of Trump, based upon articles in welll known left wing journals Trump has been in office since January. Obama was in office for eight years. However, you blame Trump for this situation when Obama sat on his hands for all his presidency.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 10 Aug 17 10.27pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I said the weapons programme accelerated since KJU assumed power an di stand by that because it is a matter of record. Your political leanings refuse to accept that Obama did anything wrong by doing nothing and you are overly critical of Trump, based upon articles in welll known left wing journals Trump has been in office since January. Obama was in office for eight years. However, you blame Trump for this situation when Obama sat on his hands for all his presidency.
Also, I never said Obama was blameless, I simply recognised that the Kims have been on this path for a long while and your BBC article did nothing but confirm both this, and how they have been impossible to bargain with over the years. As for it being a "matter of record" that the program accelerated under Obama...a matter of record where? The time to stop this was before the successful test - i.e under the watches of Clinton (Bill) and Bush (W). Once they had the successful test, there was no way to stop them save through invasion and regime change - because those things always work...right?
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| matt_himself Matataland 11 Aug 17 7.15am |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Also, I never said Obama was blameless, I simply recognised that the Kims have been on this path for a long while and your BBC article did nothing but confirm both this, and how they have been impossible to bargain with over the years. As for it being a "matter of record" that the program accelerated under Obama...a matter of record where? The time to stop this was before the successful test - i.e under the watches of Clinton (Bill) and Bush (W). Once they had the successful test, there was no way to stop them save through invasion and regime change - because those things always work...right? KJU has stepped up development of the technology for the fitting of nuclear warheads to missiles. That is a fact. Obama did nothing. Obamas strategy appeared to be 'let China deal with it'. China doesn't want a pro-western, unified Korea on its doorstep, so this was naive at best. I truly believe this is one situation where blaming Trump is wrong. He has inherited this problem. Remember, a rogue state said it would launch a pre emptive strike on US soil. What was he supposed to say? 'Go on KJU, blow Guam to smithereens'? China has done nothing. The wider Asian community has done nothing.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| davenotamonkey 11 Aug 17 8.40am |
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Remember the shrill wailing of "Armageddon" when the last POTUS said this? Me neither. It's almost like the press are desperately partisan in their reporting. NK is a boil that needs to be lanced. It will only get worse. Soft power and sanctions have not worked thus far, and only starves the population more.
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Attachment: | Stirlingsays 11 Aug 17 9.08am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
KJU has stepped up development of the technology for the fitting of nuclear warheads to missiles. That is a fact. Obama did nothing. Obamas strategy appeared to be 'let China deal with it'. China doesn't want a pro-western, unified Korea on its doorstep, so this was naive at best. I truly believe this is one situation where blaming Trump is wrong. He has inherited this problem. Remember, a rogue state said it would launch a pre emptive strike on US soil. What was he supposed to say? 'Go on KJU, blow Guam to smithereens'? China has done nothing. The wider Asian community has done nothing. Yep....we have had decades of buck passing....it's what politicians do....avoid controversial actions is written into their dna. I kind of hate those b******s...they get to slip off into the night and fcuk the next generation. How do we regard those politicians who allowed Hitler to become as powerful as he did? Isreal stuck first in their second war because they saw what was coming....they struck before they were ready....They didn't give a fcuk about world opinion. We lost our opportunity to deal with NK like that a long time ago....far too soft on insistence with China when China was relatively weak. The time to deal with NK militarily on a first strike opportunity with minimal loss has been and gone....Red lines should have been set a long time ago...and I'm afraid most of this has been democratic party hand wringing. Any course of action now is a sh1tshow. Before America choose a military action they would start removing their people from SK and their base.....North Korea aren't stupid. As soon as they know it's coming for real they have nothing to lose. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Aug 2017 9.11am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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collier row eagle  romford essex via another galaxy 11 Aug 17 9.12am |
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I suppose now wouldn't be a good time to buy a time share?
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