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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 3.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
In a place like Shoreditch, you are gonna lose a lot of punters if you back the imbecile who thought that was a good way to characterise people associated with Grenfell. The guy is replaceable and will find another job. I don't see a political correctness angle at all. I see a business decision. Same thing. The business decision is prompted by the culture we now live in.
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Part Time James 30 Jun 17 3.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
In a place like Shoreditch, you are gonna lose a lot of punters if you back the imbecile who thought that was a good way to characterise people associated with Grenfell. The guy is replaceable and will find another job. I don't see a political correctness angle at all. I see a business decision. Did I misread it? I didn't think he was associating a demographic with the victims of Grenfell. I thought he was generalising about people that like a specific genre of music. Right or wrong, that's significantly different and a lot less emotive.
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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 3.52pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
In a place like Shoreditch, you are gonna lose a lot of punters if you back the imbecile who thought that was a good way to characterise people associated with Grenfell. The guy is replaceable and will find another job. I don't see a political correctness angle at all. I see a business decision.
Essentially you are arguing for censorship by outcome and its replacement with a form of dishonesty....Anyone who supports this and also criticises 'spin' is a hypocrite...because essentially that's what you create. I certainly think that this person should have been spoken to about what is appropriate in emails but taking their living away gives out a dysfunctional and extreme message that promotes fear. I prefer to promote honest dialogue. I don't believe brow-beating people helps in this. I occasionally brow-beat on here but that's knockabout...I'm not looking to change opinions but advertise an argument. Different non violent opinions and perspectives are more than ok...they are a healthy environment for democracy. I've kind of gone off the beaten track a bit.....Ah well.....Where's that Duran Duran DVD. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 3.53pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 30 Jun 17 4.46pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Essentially you are arguing for censorship by outcome and its replacement with a form of dishonesty....Anyone who supports this and also criticises 'spin' is a hypocrite...because essentially that's what you create. I certainly think that this person should have been spoken to about what is appropriate in emails but taking their living away gives out a dysfunctional and extreme message that promotes fear. I prefer to promote honest dialogue. I don't believe brow-beating people helps in this. I occasionally brow-beat on here but that's knockabout...I'm not looking to change opinions but advertise an argument. Different non violent opinions and perspectives are more than ok...they are a healthy environment for democracy. I've kind of gone off the beaten track a bit.....Ah well.....Where's that Duran Duran DVD. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 3.53pm) If someone lost me punters I would be cross with them. How cross, and what I'd do about it, would depend. Shoreditch is wall to wall flip flops, clever T shirts & right on types. They all think I'm a jerk...they don't come to my boozer. They don't come to my boozer, I can't feed my kids. f*** that. Sack a guy. Oh well. Bye. The world is jam packed with spin and, if people can pin a blame on you, they do. It's tough and that's just how it is. Know the game and don't do dumb s***. If you do, you may get in trouble. Your choice. Forthright speech sometimes has no place in the world, either. Just because you WANT to call somebody fat, say. If they are your employer you just wouldn't. You wouldn't tell every beautiful woman you meet that you'd like to shag her even if you did. The world is just more subtle than that. People use words to butcher each other...to get ahead of each other...to be in the ascendant. It's not nice but that's just the world we live in.
If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities. |
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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 4.59pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
If someone lost me punters I would be cross with them. How cross, and what I'd do about it, would depend. Shoreditch is wall to wall flip flops, clever T shirts & right on types. They all think I'm a jerk...they don't come to my boozer. They don't come to my boozer, I can't feed my kids. f*** that. Sack a guy. Oh well. Bye. The world is jam packed with spin and, if people can pin a blame on you, they do. It's tough and that's just how it is. Know the game and don't do dumb s***. If you do, you may get in trouble. Your choice. Forthright speech sometimes has no place in the world, either. Just because you WANT to call somebody fat, say. If they are your employer you just wouldn't. You wouldn't tell every beautiful woman you meet that you'd like to shag her even if you did. The world is just more subtle than that. People use words to butcher each other...to get ahead of each other...to be in the ascendant. It's not nice but that's just the world we live in. I find your tone too forceful and it offends me. If I'm to approve of the society you promote here I think you should be sacked from your job if you communicate like this. You have certainly done that here and again...going along your lines....as you are always a representative of who employs you your forceful forthright non nonsense tone should be culled out of the workforce and society. Of course I think that is all bollocks but I regard that as the practical outcome of what you are supporting.....This email wasn't meant for the public...so your punters point is misplaced.... and I think the reaction is ridiculous and harmful. If we are all going to be judged by any comments we make at all times then I don't know of many people who would have a job by the end of the week. There are three ways to go about this. To push back, acquiesce or to approve. You certainly don't push back.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 30 Jun 17 5.20pm | |
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The debate is whether this is political correctness. The world I describe is the real one and quite a revolting one at that. I don't promote it. If one of my people insulted a large group of my clients, particularly if they were raising money for a good cause, I would be very concerned about the reputational damage.
If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 5.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
The debate is whether this is political correctness. The world I describe is the real one and quite a revolting one at that. I don't promote it. If one of my people insulted a large group of my clients, particularly if they were raising money for a good cause, I would be very concerned about the reputational damage. The debate is about sacking people because of perceived pressure from the puppet masters agenda of identity politics.
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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 5.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
The debate is whether this is political correctness. The world I describe is the real one and quite a revolting one at that. I don't promote it. If one of my people insulted a large group of my clients, particularly if they were raising money for a good cause, I would be very concerned about the reputational damage. It's censorship by outcomes....It's PC because this person has been deemed to offend when he wasn't even communicating with those he was said to offend. The whole thing is unethical and acceptance just condones this form of activist bullying where they know they can get people sacked. I appreciate that you don't approve of this world. I'm going to speak out against it because anything moving towards 'thought policing' and a society of 'spin' is massively negative. Was it an insult? Inappropriate for sure...But it was also honest. Police have closed down establishments playing that stuff. Maybe we should sack the Police when it offends us. If the email were intended to insult....perhaps I would agree...to an extent...If this guy was a repeat offender. As it is I'm looking for people to defend common sense....Not embolden unethical activists who only care about 'winning' and protect people's jobs from massive over reactions.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 30 Jun 17 5.41pm | |
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Is censorship by outcomes bad then? If so, why? I'm prepared to be won over because you seem like a bright bloke and I wouldn't pretend to be that smart. (And that's not false modesty). Up to now I would have thought it a good thing to think: I shouldn't say/do this bad thing because there might be a bad outcome for my employer and, by extension, me.
If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 6.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
Is censorship by outcomes bad then? If so, why? I'm prepared to be won over because you seem like a bright bloke and I wouldn't pretend to be that smart. (And that's not false modesty). Up to now I would have thought it a good thing to think: I shouldn't say/do this bad thing because there might be a bad outcome for my employer and, by extension, me. Obviously the guy said the wrong thing by his employers and had he been more savvy he might have realised that earlier. The key point is, why should people have to be so guarded about saying such a thing?
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 30 Jun 17 6.14pm | |
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People operating in a professional capacity, when relating to other organisations in particular, should be careful about what they say and they should have the brains to censor themselves. It's not a trivial f*** up. That's my take. The severity of the rebuke for failure depends on so many things. None of us has those details at our disposal in this case.
If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 6.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig
People operating in a professional capacity, when relating to other organisations in particular, should be careful about what they say and they should have the brains to censor themselves. It's not a trivial f*** up. That's my take. The severity of the rebuke for failure depends on so many things. None of us has those details at our disposal in this case. I give up.
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