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Boris Johnson interview on radio 4.
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 Cucking Funt  Clapham on the Back 22 Jun 17 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
I think if the Tories went back to Hague and Labour went for David Milliband (clearly I know that these are both out of the equation as things currently stand) then either would be eminently electable... Except Milliband.
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 Stirlingsays 22 Jun 17 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
A collapse of civilisation is about three days of skipped meals away. Totally agree. Society's concept of efficiency is a problem in scenarios of extremes. I was really annoyed and frustrated last year when I started looking at what I could do to prepare for nuclear attack.....Basically I'm given no options. There should be a communal shelter.....But nope....apparently if something isn't imminent and likely it's being 'inefficient'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 17 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The behaviour might be real but the motivation cannot be philosophical. The alternate view is that human 'fairness' is not philosophical but more instinctive. The confusion would be a symptom of conceit. If we assume that self interest lies at the heart of human motivation, than fairness makes sense philosophically, and instinctually. The mistake I think is to think of humans in nature as being solitary animals, rather than a omnivorous pack animal. By co-operative existence, sharing etc the maximised survival of traits is passed on. If we borrow the concept of the selfish gene, its 'motivation' is to be passed on the most (both by you, and all who possess it). As such a trait of fairness makes sense in a species, that exists on a co-operative basis, as it maximises sexual selection. Which also explains why we develop strong familiarly bonds instinctively, because they have some of the same traits and genetics as us. By assisting their survival, we benefit our genes too.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 17 3.09pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
If we assume that self interest lies at the heart of human motivation, than fairness makes sense philosophically, and instinctually. The mistake I think is to think of humans in nature as being solitary animals, rather than a omnivorous pack animal. By co-operative existence, sharing etc the maximised survival of traits is passed on. If we borrow the concept of the selfish gene, its 'motivation' is to be passed on the most (both by you, and all who possess it). As such a trait of fairness makes sense in a species, that exists on a co-operative basis, as it maximises sexual selection. Which also explains why we develop strong familiarly bonds instinctively, because they have some of the same traits and genetics as us. By assisting their survival, we benefit our genes too. I don't think the similarity is surprising. It's more that we delude ourselves about motive. We have created the concept of 'fairness' but it is really just a strategy to gain advantage as you suggest.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 17 3.21pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
We see forms of fairness at play in the higher levels of socialized animals I think. Chimps and primates generally have some level of it too. I think I get what you mean though....nature is red in tooth and craw and is often shockingly horrible. Equality though is a foreign concept to the natural world....well that I'm aware of anyway....Especially so in dogs which have an instinctive hierarchical social structure.
We have a strange relationship with other animals. We delude ourselves about our own drives and motives and then wish to anthropomorphise animals with the same delusions. It's easier than just admitting the base nature of humans. We might dress up or behaviour with abstract and societal complexity but in the end we are just apes.
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| Mapletree Croydon 22 Jun 17 3.44pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That's just contradiction. No it isn't
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| Stirlingsays 22 Jun 17 3.51pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We have a strange relationship with other animals. We delude ourselves about our own drives and motives and then wish to anthropomorphise animals with the same delusions. It's easier than just admitting the base nature of humans. We might dress up or behaviour with abstract and societal complexity but in the end we are just apes. It's true, that happens. Within the age of we live in there's a denial and demonisation of human nature that goes far beyond what is reasonable. Partly out of good intentions but also out of the need to feel superior....even if it is often born from hypocrisy. We are all hypocrites, it's just that some of us recognise it more than others and stop thinking about it. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jun 2017 3.54pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 17 3.54pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No it isn't Never mind that my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
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| wordup 22 Jun 17 8.05pm |
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We need a steady hand at a time like this, not a dithering mush mouth. Interviews like this don't help his chances of becoming PM.
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