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Vehicle hits people in Finsbury Park

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legaleagle Flag 19 Jun 17 12.16pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Define 'good thing' and 'bad thing' and the time and scope of 'British Empire'.

Let's work from your definitions.Your starter for 10...

 

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legaleagle Flag 19 Jun 17 12.17pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I have.

You may not have noticed but my comment you responded to was addressed to Mr Hog,not your good self.

 

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legaleagle Flag 19 Jun 17 12.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It was one or the other, depending on who you are. That is the nature of life.

No,actually in different ways it was both,Things tend to be grey rather than black and white in so many cases,same as with religions and"aggressive" cultures.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Jun 17 12.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

No,actually in different ways it was both,Things tend to be grey rather than black and white in so many cases,same as with religions and"aggressive" cultures.

Isn't that what I said?

 

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Mstrobez Flag 19 Jun 17 12.37pm Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Secularism requires no changes in regards to how it treats groups. If you think the 'white British folk' as you put need to change I'll be interested in knowing in what way. Is this guy British, you seem to know?

Mainstream Islam does need to change. The loudest voices on that are from reformist Muslims. So you focusing on Tommy Robinson says a lot.

However saying something needs to change is a million miles away from endorsing extremism. Any suggestion otherwise would be outrageous.

We need to wait for details but if this is a response attack then I am truly worried for this summer.

The security services must get more money to identify these people. If we are talking lone wolfs then I'm not sure what can be done.

I never said Islam doesn't need reform. I'm pointing out the irony of an ideology and opinion that seems to be more and more popular nowadays and exposing the hypocrisy of it when something like this happens from the same community. The reason I pick out someone like Tommy Robinson is because he seems to be growing quite a following nowadays and my response is directed to people who blame the whole of Islam for terrorism and all Muslims for not stopping the scumbags committing these atrocities, which is a subtle way of blaming all Muslims indirectly, it's as outrageous as making a link between those who call for change and those who call for extremism. I'm just sick and tired of being called a "terrorist sympathiser" because I refuse to tar an entire group of people with the same criticism just because some arsehole decided to express his faith in a perverse way. Especially when I went to school with many of these people, played football on the playground with them, went to their house for dinner etc etc. You'd be right to say that I don't wanna offend them, not for the sake of political correctness or any of that nonsense but for the sake of me personally knowing them as decent people and are now being used as an easy target for people to promote beliefs that they clearly hold regardless of atrocities. Thoughtlessly creating divisions in society does nothing but fuel this fire, I couldn't care less if people make out that's me "making an excuse for it", it's just a "statement of fact" to coin a phrase I keep hearing repeated. I agree that times are looking increasingly worrying at the moment, as it stands i really can't see an end in sight.

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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Mstrobez Flag 19 Jun 17 12.40pm Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by Vaibow

yeah like i said, hate crime.

No mate it's a terrorist attack. "Revenge attack" in this perverted form is a no different to the Jihadists who claim the same bulls*** "eye for an eye" in reference to their "brothers and sisters in Syria" when committing such atrocities. Please explain to me the how this is any different from London Bridge?

The defitintion of a terrorist attack -
"Type of: act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act. the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. coup de main, surprise attack."

Please explain how based on the above definition this isn't a terrorist attack. If it isn't political (which it is) it is most certainly ideological.

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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Stirlingsays Flag 19 Jun 17 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mstrobez

I never said Islam doesn't need reform. I'm pointing out the irony of an ideology and opinion that seems to be more and more popular nowadays and exposing the hypocrisy of it when something like this happens from the same community. The reason I pick out someone like Tommy Robinson is because he seems to be growing quite a following nowadays and my response is directed to people who blame the whole of Islam for terrorism and all Muslims for not stopping the scumbags committing these atrocities, which is a subtle way of blaming all Muslims indirectly, it's as outrageous as making a link between those who call for change and those who call for extremism. I'm just sick and tired of being called a "terrorist sympathiser" because I refuse to tar an entire group of people with the same criticism just because some arsehole decided to express his faith in a perverse way. Especially when I went to school with many of these people, played football on the playground with them, went to their house for dinner etc etc. You'd be right to say that I don't wanna offend them, not for the sake of political correctness or any of that nonsense but for the sake of me personally knowing them as decent people and are now being used as an easy target for people to promote beliefs that they clearly hold regardless of atrocities. Thoughtlessly creating divisions in society does nothing but fuel this fire, I couldn't care less if people make out that's me "making an excuse for it", it's just a "statement of fact" to coin a phrase I keep hearing repeated. I agree that times are looking increasingly worrying at the moment, as it stands i really can't see an end in sight.

I don't know of a person who blames the whole of Islam for terrorism or all Muslims for terrorism.

A person who does that isn't being fair. There are problems within mainstream socially conservative Islam which feeds into extremism and it needs reform and we both agree on that...Regardless the social conservatism in Islam isn't the whole of Islam anyway..I don't know of anyone sensible who wants to ban a religion itself.

The reality is that most socially conservative Muslims aren't going to support murder, they might have unacceptable views but there's a rather major step before people do murder....that is only ever the tip of the spear.

I agree with you that if you know a person and think they are a decent person then you shouldn't treat them differently because they don't have a connection to extremists.

To use an example...I support Palace...those idiots at the barrier who scream insults at opposition players don't represent me. I do agree with action being taken against them to stop their behaviour...whatever works basically.

Those on watch lists....those who our security services have deemed a problem are those we need to take action on....That's independent of a religion actually even though we know it's mainly going to be Islamic.

I believe we need action on them....As for Islam itself I believe we need to support the reformers...So we probably agree more than we disagree.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 19 Jun 17 1.03pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

Because Muslims are not a race. They are people of many diverse colours and races, who adhere to the same monotheistic belief system.

Therefore a terror attack, not racist.
HTH.


Edited by palace_in_frogland (19 Jun 2017 9.09am)


So if outside a football ground next season a muslim supporter of any particular club happens to get lets say stabbed in the neck by another supporter of another club who lets just say happens to be white.
Would that be deemed a terrorist attack?

 


Pro USA & Israel

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Stirlingsays Flag 19 Jun 17 1.09pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The whole 'empire' good or bad is very reductionist.

If you had to answer that you'd say 'bad but understandable for its time.'

If you didn't have an empire you would just be eaten up or beaten up by another one. The realities of the playground have never changed...People just dress better and use more intelligent language as they get older.

We live with the legacies of empires of course and their form has chosen and adapted but they exist on in a sense.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 19 Jun 17 1.12pm

Have you noticed that all the reporting of this incident seems to include "a 48-year-old man" has been arrested. His age seems to have been established immediately and is reported as if it is of great relevance. Perhaps we should consider interning all 48-year-olds as a precaution

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 19 Jun 17 1.43pm Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez


So if outside a football ground next season a muslim supporter of any particular club happens to get lets say stabbed in the neck by another supporter of another club who lets just say happens to be white.
Would that be deemed a terrorist attack?

Too many unknowns there to answer directly. Was he stabbed because he was a Muslim, or because he was a rival supporter who happened to be a Muslim, or just randomly targeted?

What was the motivation and ultimate intent of the perp?

If he was targeted as a Muslim, it's an Islamophobic attack. If the intent was to spread fear amongst a wider group, yes it's a terror attack.


 

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 19 Jun 17 1.46pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

Too many unknowns there to answer directly. Was he stabbed because he was a Muslim, or because he was a rival supporter who happened to be a Muslim, or just randomly targeted?

What was the motivation and ultimate intent of the perp?

If he was targeted as a Muslim, it's an Islamophobic attack. If the intent was to spread fear amongst a wider group, yes it's a terror attack.


Exactly Its GBH *Awaits Rumpole's legal definition*

 


Pro USA & Israel

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