This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
legaleagle 19 Jun 17 12.16pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by hedgehog50
Define 'good thing' and 'bad thing' and the time and scope of 'British Empire'. Let's work from your definitions.Your starter for 10...
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
legaleagle 19 Jun 17 12.17pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I have. You may not have noticed but my comment you responded to was addressed to Mr Hog,not your good self.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
legaleagle 19 Jun 17 12.20pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It was one or the other, depending on who you are. That is the nature of life. No,actually in different ways it was both,Things tend to be grey rather than black and white in so many cases,same as with religions and"aggressive" cultures.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 19 Jun 17 12.28pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by legaleagle
No,actually in different ways it was both,Things tend to be grey rather than black and white in so many cases,same as with religions and"aggressive" cultures. Isn't that what I said?
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mstrobez 19 Jun 17 12.37pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Mainstream Islam does need to change. The loudest voices on that are from reformist Muslims. So you focusing on Tommy Robinson says a lot. However saying something needs to change is a million miles away from endorsing extremism. Any suggestion otherwise would be outrageous. We need to wait for details but if this is a response attack then I am truly worried for this summer. The security services must get more money to identify these people. If we are talking lone wolfs then I'm not sure what can be done. I never said Islam doesn't need reform. I'm pointing out the irony of an ideology and opinion that seems to be more and more popular nowadays and exposing the hypocrisy of it when something like this happens from the same community. The reason I pick out someone like Tommy Robinson is because he seems to be growing quite a following nowadays and my response is directed to people who blame the whole of Islam for terrorism and all Muslims for not stopping the scumbags committing these atrocities, which is a subtle way of blaming all Muslims indirectly, it's as outrageous as making a link between those who call for change and those who call for extremism. I'm just sick and tired of being called a "terrorist sympathiser" because I refuse to tar an entire group of people with the same criticism just because some arsehole decided to express his faith in a perverse way. Especially when I went to school with many of these people, played football on the playground with them, went to their house for dinner etc etc. You'd be right to say that I don't wanna offend them, not for the sake of political correctness or any of that nonsense but for the sake of me personally knowing them as decent people and are now being used as an easy target for people to promote beliefs that they clearly hold regardless of atrocities. Thoughtlessly creating divisions in society does nothing but fuel this fire, I couldn't care less if people make out that's me "making an excuse for it", it's just a "statement of fact" to coin a phrase I keep hearing repeated. I agree that times are looking increasingly worrying at the moment, as it stands i really can't see an end in sight.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mstrobez 19 Jun 17 12.40pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Vaibow
yeah like i said, hate crime. No mate it's a terrorist attack. "Revenge attack" in this perverted form is a no different to the Jihadists who claim the same bulls*** "eye for an eye" in reference to their "brothers and sisters in Syria" when committing such atrocities. Please explain to me the how this is any different from London Bridge? The defitintion of a terrorist attack - Please explain how based on the above definition this isn't a terrorist attack. If it isn't political (which it is) it is most certainly ideological.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 19 Jun 17 1.02pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mstrobez
I never said Islam doesn't need reform. I'm pointing out the irony of an ideology and opinion that seems to be more and more popular nowadays and exposing the hypocrisy of it when something like this happens from the same community. The reason I pick out someone like Tommy Robinson is because he seems to be growing quite a following nowadays and my response is directed to people who blame the whole of Islam for terrorism and all Muslims for not stopping the scumbags committing these atrocities, which is a subtle way of blaming all Muslims indirectly, it's as outrageous as making a link between those who call for change and those who call for extremism. I'm just sick and tired of being called a "terrorist sympathiser" because I refuse to tar an entire group of people with the same criticism just because some arsehole decided to express his faith in a perverse way. Especially when I went to school with many of these people, played football on the playground with them, went to their house for dinner etc etc. You'd be right to say that I don't wanna offend them, not for the sake of political correctness or any of that nonsense but for the sake of me personally knowing them as decent people and are now being used as an easy target for people to promote beliefs that they clearly hold regardless of atrocities. Thoughtlessly creating divisions in society does nothing but fuel this fire, I couldn't care less if people make out that's me "making an excuse for it", it's just a "statement of fact" to coin a phrase I keep hearing repeated. I agree that times are looking increasingly worrying at the moment, as it stands i really can't see an end in sight. I don't know of a person who blames the whole of Islam for terrorism or all Muslims for terrorism. A person who does that isn't being fair. There are problems within mainstream socially conservative Islam which feeds into extremism and it needs reform and we both agree on that...Regardless the social conservatism in Islam isn't the whole of Islam anyway..I don't know of anyone sensible who wants to ban a religion itself. The reality is that most socially conservative Muslims aren't going to support murder, they might have unacceptable views but there's a rather major step before people do murder....that is only ever the tip of the spear. I agree with you that if you know a person and think they are a decent person then you shouldn't treat them differently because they don't have a connection to extremists. To use an example...I support Palace...those idiots at the barrier who scream insults at opposition players don't represent me. I do agree with action being taken against them to stop their behaviour...whatever works basically. Those on watch lists....those who our security services have deemed a problem are those we need to take action on....That's independent of a religion actually even though we know it's mainly going to be Islamic. I believe we need action on them....As for Islam itself I believe we need to support the reformers...So we probably agree more than we disagree.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 19 Jun 17 1.03pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by palace_in_frogland
Because Muslims are not a race. They are people of many diverse colours and races, who adhere to the same monotheistic belief system. Therefore a terror attack, not racist.
Pro USA & Israel |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 19 Jun 17 1.09pm | |
---|---|
The whole 'empire' good or bad is very reductionist. If you had to answer that you'd say 'bad but understandable for its time.' If you didn't have an empire you would just be eaten up or beaten up by another one. The realities of the playground have never changed...People just dress better and use more intelligent language as they get older. We live with the legacies of empires of course and their form has chosen and adapted but they exist on in a sense.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
hedgehog50 Croydon 19 Jun 17 1.12pm | |
---|---|
Have you noticed that all the reporting of this incident seems to include "a 48-year-old man" has been arrested. His age seems to have been established immediately and is reported as if it is of great relevance. Perhaps we should consider interning all 48-year-olds as a precaution
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
palace_in_frogland In a broken dream 19 Jun 17 1.43pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Jimenez
Too many unknowns there to answer directly. Was he stabbed because he was a Muslim, or because he was a rival supporter who happened to be a Muslim, or just randomly targeted? What was the motivation and ultimate intent of the perp? If he was targeted as a Muslim, it's an Islamophobic attack. If the intent was to spread fear amongst a wider group, yes it's a terror attack.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 19 Jun 17 1.46pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by palace_in_frogland
Too many unknowns there to answer directly. Was he stabbed because he was a Muslim, or because he was a rival supporter who happened to be a Muslim, or just randomly targeted? What was the motivation and ultimate intent of the perp? If he was targeted as a Muslim, it's an Islamophobic attack. If the intent was to spread fear amongst a wider group, yes it's a terror attack. Exactly Its GBH *Awaits Rumpole's legal definition*
Pro USA & Israel |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.