yeah, could have just as easily stood in middle of the crowd sunday and done the same thing, there but for the grace of god etc,,,,

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Edited by Mr_Gristle (23 May 2017 10.21am)

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

You are totally correct of course. It is a massive difference between the mainstream versions of other religions and it's essentially why the problem in Islam is so significant....despite some who are ignorant or who just try to deceive by saying that the problem is tiny.

There is one religious book that I know of that is more violent than the Qu'ran and that's the Toran. But the mainstream, view in Judaism isn't that every word is dictated by God but that their book is 'inspired' by him.....'God' written through man as it were.

So mainstream Jews can reject or interpret the violent sections much more easily than mainstream Muslims can. In fact most followers of most religions have never read their book(s) and take its meanings from religious leaders....leaders who often aren't very honest about what lies within the book.

What is or isn't the correct interpretation isn't the point. The 'no real scotsman' argument is a false path. All that matters is the end result of how popular the different interpretations are. The messages that can be taken from the books does make a difference but the culture and history of individual nations is an even bigger factor....That determines how the messages are used. Essentially worldwide around 15 percent of Muslims vote for parties that would enact some version of Sharia. Here I should imagine the percent is less...probably under ten but essentially we still have a significant problem.

Islamic reformers like Maajid Nawaz push for secular Islam and assimilation. He sees the failure of multiculturalism for his people and wants the successes of assimilation and secularization that has happened for the Jewish peoples. I agree with him and support him....but he isn't supported by most of the left and is mostly just supported by the right....Which, in a tragic sense is amusing. The progressives are all for protecting minorities and go to great lengths and cost to do it....But defending minorities within minorities...Well, they are far more silent on that.

There they have their excuse of cultural relativism. I see them as prolonging the problem and hence allowing it to worsen.... with the best of intentions of course but the result is the same regardless.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I think many people have used that word in regards to Piers for plenty of different reasons.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

First and foremost, a tragic day for all those affected.

On the point of Religious Fundamentalism, I disagree that Islam is unique as a world religion atm. Around 30% of Americans are Evangelicals, who believe the Biblenis thenliteral word of God, that Jesus will be reborn in theirnlifetime and that America should 'spread' God's message. Evangelicals are the fastest growing segment of the church globally.

That is a group from which numerous mass murderers, war mongers and race hate groups have stemmed from, not just recently, but for well over a hundred years. The emergence of global Islamic terrorism is fairly recent, probably dating to the Gulf war and formation of Hezbollah. To tackle it, we have to stop leaving countries like Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Yemen and Iraq in anarchy.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Originally posted by nickgusset

Less than 12 hours after the event and nobbers on here trying to politically point score.
Shame on you.

Completely agree with both of you.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.