Jermain Defoe

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Jermain Defoe

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chateauferret 19 Apr 17 11.30pm
Originally posted by mattteo Ok, then let's talk about them. I want to see how much you know. You can learn from me, I can learn from you. You asked me how many of the above players have performed well and scored regularly in the Premier League. You must know that no striker has played in the Premier League prior to PLAYING IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE! Not Lukaku, not Diego Costa, not Vardy, not Hary Kane, not Aguero, not Ibrahimovic, no one. They were all at one point brought to the PL, either through the youth system or through transfers. Of course, you are right in considering a first season in English football is something used for getting accustomed, usually with less goals scored than normally. But then again, if a player like Gabbiadini (who comes from Italy and isn't very hard-working) has had such an amazing start, if a player like Vardy had an amazing first season after promotion from the Championship, if players like Rickie Lambert, Charlie Austin or Odion Ighalo were able to properly compete in the PL after having a good ratio of goals scored/minutes played in the Championship, why should it be different for someone else? Well it's a matter of risk. A player that's proven quality in the PL is less of a risk than one who's not. The latter may turn out good, like Milivojevic, or not, like Bumfluff. Edited by chateauferret (19 Apr 2017 11.34pm) ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

19 Apr 17 11.30pm

Originally posted by mattteo

Ok, then let's talk about them. I want to see how much you know. You can learn from me, I can learn from you. You asked me how many of the above players have performed well and scored regularly in the Premier League.
You must know that no striker has played in the Premier League prior to PLAYING IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE!
Not Lukaku, not Diego Costa, not Vardy, not Hary Kane, not Aguero, not Ibrahimovic, no one. They were all at one point brought to the PL, either through the youth system or through transfers.

Of course, you are right in considering a first season in English football is something used for getting accustomed, usually with less goals scored than normally. But then again, if a player like Gabbiadini (who comes from Italy and isn't very hard-working) has had such an amazing start, if a player like Vardy had an amazing first season after promotion from the Championship, if players like Rickie Lambert, Charlie Austin or Odion Ighalo were able to properly compete in the PL after having a good ratio of goals scored/minutes played in the Championship, why should it be different for someone else?

Well it's a matter of risk. A player that's proven quality in the PL is less of a risk than one who's not. The latter may turn out good, like Milivojevic, or not, like Bumfluff.

Edited by chateauferret (19 Apr 2017 11.34pm)

============
The Ferret
============

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mattteo 20 Apr 17 11.24am
Originally posted by Spiderman You have completely lost me now! Not sure I can learn from you as I don't really understand what you are saying, this is not meant to be offensive. What I'm trying to say is that no player was born with Premier League background. They were all promoted at some point by somebody.
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mattteo

20 Apr 17 11.24am

Originally posted by Spiderman

You have completely lost me now! Not sure I can learn from you as I don't really understand what you are saying, this is not meant to be offensive.

What I'm trying to say is that no player was born with Premier League background. They were all promoted at some point by somebody.

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mattteo 20 Apr 17 11.42am
Originally posted by chateauferret Well it's a matter of risk. A player that's proven quality in the PL is less of a risk than one who's not. The latter may turn out good, like Milivojevic, or not, like Bumfluff. Edited by chateauferret (19 Apr 2017 11.34pm) Every attacking player who has constantly played well in a similar or stronger league will do at least ok in the Premier League GIVEN THE PROPER PLAYING MINUTES (ok, excluding lazy player who don't run, like Soldado or Balotelli). Yes, you could bring up many arguments regarding Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto, Borja Baston, Vincent Janssen, Depay, Salah, Cuadrado, Schurrle, but how much have they REALLY played? Iago Aspas is now considered one of the best in Europe, Luis Alberto just scored the winning goal in Lazio's last match, Depay is amazing in France. Salah and Cuadrado are the best in Italy. They were rejected by Top 6 team, somewhat unjustly and stupidly, but they'd be very good in mid-table PL teams. I have only seen 1 player in the Big 5 championships (La Liga, Bundesliga, PL, Serie A, Ligue 1) drop from a goal or assist every 200 minutes to the same performance in more than 4x that time (only Schipplock who was one of the best German strikers, but hasn't scored or assisted for Darmstadt in the last 1000 minutes). The rest have maintained consistence given the playing time. So, if you're buying what I say is right, you know what you're buying
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mattteo

20 Apr 17 11.42am

Originally posted by chateauferret

Well it's a matter of risk. A player that's proven quality in the PL is less of a risk than one who's not. The latter may turn out good, like Milivojevic, or not, like Bumfluff.

Edited by chateauferret (19 Apr 2017 11.34pm)

Every attacking player who has constantly played well in a similar or stronger league will do at least ok in the Premier League GIVEN THE PROPER PLAYING MINUTES (ok, excluding lazy player who don't run, like Soldado or Balotelli).

Yes, you could bring up many arguments regarding Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto, Borja Baston, Vincent Janssen, Depay, Salah, Cuadrado, Schurrle, but how much have they REALLY played? Iago Aspas is now considered one of the best in Europe, Luis Alberto just scored the winning goal in Lazio's last match, Depay is amazing in France. Salah and Cuadrado are the best in Italy. They were rejected by Top 6 team, somewhat unjustly and stupidly, but they'd be very good in mid-table PL teams.

I have only seen 1 player in the Big 5 championships (La Liga, Bundesliga, PL, Serie A, Ligue 1) drop from a goal or assist every 200 minutes to the same performance in more than 4x that time (only Schipplock who was one of the best German strikers, but hasn't scored or assisted for Darmstadt in the last 1000 minutes). The rest have maintained consistence given the playing time.

So, if you're buying what I say is right, you know what you're buying

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nairb75 Baltimore 05 May 17 2.31pm
sam throws it out this morning that he's interested. good move. now go get him and don't screw around until he's gone.
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nairb75

Baltimore 05 May 17 2.31pm

sam throws it out this morning that he's interested. good move. now go get him and don't screw around until he's gone.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 May 17 3.15pm
Originally posted by Goldfiinger Got to love matteo's posts... never a good thing to say about anyone. Next he'll be saying Wilf still needs to prove his quality. Quite. Fairly sure he scored 3 times in open play against us this season.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 May 17 3.15pm

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Originally posted by Goldfiinger

Got to love matteo's posts... never a good thing to say about anyone.

Next he'll be saying Wilf still needs to prove his quality.

Quite. Fairly sure he scored 3 times in open play against us this season.

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lefty27 ipswich 05 May 17 3.44pm
Originally posted by mattteo Patrick Bamford didn't cost money. He was just on loan. Who is Sa-nogoals? I'll try to name a few players who would cost 3-10 million and would offer more than Defoe. You're asking quite a lot at 15 goals per season. Does that include taking penalties or not? Does it include getting the same playing time as, let's say, Defoe or Benteke got this year? Cause if you play someone half that time, then surely it would be hard to get 15 goals in a season. But given the same playing time: El Shaarawy Eduardo Vargas Dorlan Pabon Imoh Ezekiel Lasse Vibe Emenike (please don't tell me he's had his chance at West Ham and didn;t score. He only played 500 minutes in a new team. He needs time!! Even Defoe has gone 700 minutes since his last goal) Nils Petersen Duvan Zapata Asamoah Gyan Gary Hooper Ciro Immobile (a little more than 10 but worth it!) Adrian Ramos Sergio Araujo Abel Hernandez Oumar Niasse Shane Long Enner Valencia Fernando Forestieri I'd have said Karelis too but he recently broke his leg I'd have said Oba-Oba Martins 1 year ago, but he's at 32 now, a little old (I'd still have him more than Defoe. Just compare what Martins did in the MLS to what Defoe did there. Yes, Martins had 4 matches without scoring for Birmingham in the PL but he only played like 200 minutes and he did score in the Cup final against Arsenal. Not much PL material to judge, but he's also used to playing as a winger, runs a lot more, covers more ground and his goals in the MLS are just flying through the roof) Dare I say Dwight Gayle? No, he'd surely cost more than 15 now at the PL prices. I'd be ok with Tammy Abraham but everyone will want him now, so who will take him will overpay for him. You gotta look at those who are neglected by anyone else. Like how Forestieri has been extraordinary at Sheffield but now is 4th choice cause they brought in Rhodes and Winnall (crazy, I know!). Or like Gary Hooper scored a gazzillion goals for Celtic both in domestic and European competitions and did ok with Norwich in the PL league (6 goals and 2 assist for a first season with a struggling Norwich side) but nobody seems to notice him! Edited by mattteo (19 Apr 2017 6.12am) That's because he (Hooper) is s***, I could score a bucket load of goals for Celtic. Defoe would be a better signing than any of the above, guarantees goals and a complete professional off the pitch. Keep your random foreign mercenaries that are after a Pl pay check.
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lefty27

ipswich 05 May 17 3.44pm

Originally posted by mattteo

Patrick Bamford didn't cost money. He was just on loan. Who is Sa-nogoals?

I'll try to name a few players who would cost 3-10 million and would offer more than Defoe. You're asking quite a lot at 15 goals per season. Does that include taking penalties or not? Does it include getting the same playing time as, let's say, Defoe or Benteke got this year?

Cause if you play someone half that time, then surely it would be hard to get 15 goals in a season.

But given the same playing time:
El Shaarawy
Eduardo Vargas
Dorlan Pabon
Imoh Ezekiel
Lasse Vibe
Emenike (please don't tell me he's had his chance at West Ham and didn;t score. He only played 500 minutes in a new team. He needs time!! Even Defoe has gone 700 minutes since his last goal)
Nils Petersen
Duvan Zapata
Asamoah Gyan
Gary Hooper
Ciro Immobile (a little more than 10 but worth it!)
Adrian Ramos
Sergio Araujo
Abel Hernandez
Oumar Niasse
Shane Long
Enner Valencia
Fernando Forestieri

I'd have said Karelis too but he recently broke his leg
I'd have said Oba-Oba Martins 1 year ago, but he's at 32 now, a little old (I'd still have him more than Defoe. Just compare what Martins did in the MLS to what Defoe did there. Yes, Martins had 4 matches without scoring for Birmingham in the PL but he only played like 200 minutes and he did score in the Cup final against Arsenal. Not much PL material to judge, but he's also used to playing as a winger, runs a lot more, covers more ground and his goals in the MLS are just flying through the roof)

Dare I say Dwight Gayle? No, he'd surely cost more than 15 now at the PL prices.
I'd be ok with Tammy Abraham but everyone will want him now, so who will take him will overpay for him.

You gotta look at those who are neglected by anyone else. Like how Forestieri has been extraordinary at Sheffield but now is 4th choice cause they brought in Rhodes and Winnall (crazy, I know!).
Or like Gary Hooper scored a gazzillion goals for Celtic both in domestic and European competitions and did ok with Norwich in the PL league (6 goals and 2 assist for a first season with a struggling Norwich side) but nobody seems to notice him!

Edited by mattteo (19 Apr 2017 6.12am)

That's because he (Hooper) is s***, I could score a bucket load of goals for Celtic. Defoe would be a better signing than any of the above, guarantees goals and a complete professional off the pitch. Keep your random foreign mercenaries that are after a Pl pay check.

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Dan89 Se25 05 May 17 6.48pm
Maybe not a question for now. If Defoe decided to join Palace. Where would he fit in the side because he won't join to be a sub. Interested to see what fans think. Another Damien Diagonal - Total Football
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Dan89

Se25 05 May 17 6.48pm

Maybe not a question for now. If Defoe decided to join Palace. Where would he fit in the side because he won't join to be a sub. Interested to see what fans think.

Another Damien Diagonal - Total Football

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black eagle. south croydon. 05 May 17 6.57pm
Please please let this happen. Defoe is still one of the best finishes in and around the penalty box. The Allardyce connection could swing it our way but we have to make sure we stay up first. I think Defoe has a couple of years left in him.
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black eagle.

south croydon. 05 May 17 6.57pm

Please please let this happen.

Defoe is still one of the best finishes in and around the penalty box.

The Allardyce connection could swing it our way but we have to make sure we stay up first.

I think Defoe has a couple of years left in him.

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mattteo 06 May 17 3.33pm
Originally posted by lefty27 That's because he (Hooper) is s***, I could score a bucket load of goals for Celtic Ha-ha!!!! Yeah, right ))) Man, come on! That's why there's only been 1 other like him in Celtic's history, because everyone could do it, right?
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mattteo

06 May 17 3.33pm

Originally posted by lefty27

That's because he (Hooper) is s***, I could score a bucket load of goals for Celtic

Ha-ha!!!! Yeah, right ))) Man, come on!

That's why there's only been 1 other like him in Celtic's history, because everyone could do it, right?

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Booted Eagle Bristol 06 May 17 5.59pm
Doing it for Palace today. He'll do the Swans for us next week even before we kick a ball, see us safe and then sign on the dotted line for us. COYP !! “ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ” —United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld
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Booted Eagle

Bristol 06 May 17 5.59pm

Doing it for Palace today. He'll do the Swans for us next week even before we kick a ball, see us safe and then sign on the dotted line for us. COYP !!

“ [T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know. ”
—United States Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld

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Goldfiinger Just down the road 07 May 17 12.11am
Originally posted by Booted Eagle Doing it for Palace today. He'll do the Swans for us next week even before we kick a ball, see us safe and then sign on the dotted line for us. COYP !! Yup I'm going to back him.
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Goldfiinger

Just down the road 07 May 17 12.11am

Originally posted by Booted Eagle

Doing it for Palace today. He'll do the Swans for us next week even before we kick a ball, see us safe and then sign on the dotted line for us. COYP !!

Yup I'm going to back him.

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Spiderman Horsham 07 May 17 5.20pm
Originally posted by Goldfiinger Yup I'm going to back him. Good friends with PVA.
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Spiderman

Horsham 07 May 17 5.20pm

Originally posted by Goldfiinger

Yup I'm going to back him.

Good friends with PVA.

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