Martin McGuinness

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Martin McGuinness

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 21 Mar 17 10.54pm
Originally posted by palace777 Eh? [Link] Whilst given his background you would expect him to support McGuinness, his rather fulsome tribute ignores a few facts Also bearing in mind The Birmingham bombings I wonder how some of the Baggies feel. Rather than being pro Irish he comes across as more anti Brit. If he thinks we are that bad I wish he'd bigger off the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 21 Mar 17 10.54pm

Originally posted by palace777

Eh?

[Link]

Whilst given his background you would expect him to support McGuinness, his rather fulsome tribute ignores a few facts

Also bearing in mind The Birmingham bombings I wonder how some of the Baggies feel.

Rather than being pro Irish he comes across as more anti Brit. If he thinks we are that bad I wish he'd bigger off

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 21 Mar 17 11.16pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch [Link] Whilst given his background you would expect him to support McGuinness, his rather fulsome tribute ignores a few facts Also bearing in mind The Birmingham bombings I wonder how some of the Baggies feel. Rather than being pro Irish he comes across as more anti Brit. If he thinks we are that bad I wish he'd bigger off He is without doubt anti British who hides behind his true feelings, dressing them up as being a 'proud Irishman If he wasn't a pro footballer I've no doubt he would be sitting in a squat in Derry getting high and rambling on about those 'b**** Brits' blah blah blah. McLean is a c.... Mcguiness was a c** on a far grander scale. He opted for peace and to go straight for no other reason than to stop himself spending the rest of his life in prison. He didn't do it for the people... He did it to save his own skin after years of murdering and butchering innocent people. Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 21 Mar 17 11.16pm

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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

[Link]

Whilst given his background you would expect him to support McGuinness, his rather fulsome tribute ignores a few facts

Also bearing in mind The Birmingham bombings I wonder how some of the Baggies feel.

Rather than being pro Irish he comes across as more anti Brit. If he thinks we are that bad I wish he'd bigger off

He is without doubt anti British who hides behind his true feelings, dressing them up as being a 'proud Irishman

If he wasn't a pro footballer I've no doubt he would be sitting in a squat in Derry getting high and rambling on about those 'b****** Brits' blah blah blah.

McLean is a c***....

Mcguiness was a c*** on a far grander scale. He opted for peace and to go straight for no other reason than to stop himself spending the rest of his life in prison. He didn't do it for the people... He did it to save his own skin after years of murdering and butchering innocent people.

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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Harry Beever Newbury 22 Mar 17 6.18am
Originally posted by Kermit8 You have to remember that the majority Catholic population were being treated, and had been for a long time, something akin to the Jews in Germany in the mid 1930-s before it all kicked off. Discriminated against with housing and jobs. Burnt out of their homes plenty were too and when they decided to go on peaceful civil rights marches they were attacked by Protestant thugs, the police and special reserves all in uniform. Many thousands of young people joined the IRA at that point. Must have seemed like the logical choice. McGuinness was a murderer. No ifs or buts. But then again there were murderers on all sides; In the RUC, the Army, the loyalists and The Republicans with our own Government taking part in killings too. No one can claim the moral high ground. Well put. My great uncle, a man off peace. was shot by a loyalist gunman outside his house. The violence wasn't as one sided as most people seem to think. Glad the country has moved on but what happens to the border post Brexit is of great concern and it's still a tinder box in my opinion. Blink and the peace process could regress by decades if not handled extremely carefully. No idea what the solution is though and glad it's not my job to sort.
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Harry Beever

Newbury 22 Mar 17 6.18am

Originally posted by Kermit8

You have to remember that the majority Catholic population were being treated, and had been for a long time, something akin to the Jews in Germany in the mid 1930-s before it all kicked off.

Discriminated against with housing and jobs. Burnt out of their homes plenty were too and when they decided to go on peaceful civil rights marches they were attacked by Protestant thugs, the police and special reserves all in uniform.

Many thousands of young people joined the IRA at that point. Must have seemed like the logical choice.

McGuinness was a murderer. No ifs or buts. But then again there were murderers on all sides; In the RUC, the Army, the loyalists and The Republicans with our own Government taking part in killings too. No one can claim the moral high ground.

Well put. My great uncle, a man off peace. was shot by a loyalist gunman outside his house. The violence wasn't as one sided as most people seem to think. Glad the country has moved on but what happens to the border post Brexit is of great concern and it's still a tinder box in my opinion. Blink and the peace process could regress by decades if not handled extremely carefully. No idea what the solution is though and glad it's not my job to sort.

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Harry Beever Newbury 22 Mar 17 6.21am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio ireland is one island. That i will agree to. As far as being one country ? the republic in the south is a failed State. 100 years of failure. mass unemployment, emigration, abuses by the clergy, cronyism, corruption of senior politicians, an intrusion into private morality, drugs and massive drug gangs killing each other in broad daylight, etc etc, the speed of uncontrolled immigration sprouting ghettoes , high taxation, crappy NHS, expensive prescriptions, absence of left-right politics, same political elites all the time, white collar crime and tax dodging multinationals, US military use of Shannon airport in spite of 99% of public opposing it..... Proportional Representation voting has produced a rot worthy of the Banana republics with the sunshine. Some southern catholics prefer the mainland UK with its accountability of politicians and secular ways. Ulster is another failed State-let. Massive welfare dependency all round and costing a ton of money to prop up each year. United ireland ? i should coco So the Republic of Ireland is an impoverished, lawless land full of paedophiles? Come off it mate! When was the last time you were there?
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Harry Beever

Newbury 22 Mar 17 6.21am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

ireland is one island. That i will agree to. As far as being one country ? the republic in the south is a failed State. 100 years of failure.
mass unemployment, emigration, abuses by the clergy, cronyism, corruption of senior politicians, an intrusion into private morality, drugs and massive drug gangs killing each other in broad daylight, etc etc, the speed of uncontrolled immigration sprouting ghettoes , high taxation, crappy NHS, expensive prescriptions, absence of left-right politics, same political elites all the time, white collar crime and tax dodging multinationals, US military use of Shannon airport in spite of 99% of public opposing it..... Proportional Representation voting has produced a rot worthy of the Banana republics with the sunshine.

Some southern catholics prefer the mainland UK with its accountability of politicians and secular ways.

Ulster is another failed State-let. Massive welfare dependency all round and costing a ton of money to prop up each year.

United ireland ? i should coco

So the Republic of Ireland is an impoverished, lawless land full of paedophiles? Come off it mate! When was the last time you were there?

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PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Mar 17 9.43am
Originally posted by Harry Beever So the Republic of Ireland is an impoverished, lawless land full of paedophiles? Come off it mate! When was the last time you were there? Ta me anseo anois. ( i am here right now ). you want me to back up my assertions with some statistics or some data ? you heard of the Magdalene laundry or what happened in Tuam recently ? you heard of whole towns and regions devastated by emigration ? All i am saying, is that the whole UK/Ireland thing. The whole conflict thing....is not as simple as black and white. Not just goodies and baddies. There is still a statue to Oliver Cromwell at Whitehall. How would that make me feel about paying tribute on rememberance Sunday to the dead of WW1 say ? And when Tony Blair goes and bombs the sh1t out of a faraway country full of innocent brown people, how safe does that make me feel travelling in the morning rush hour on the Tube. Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Mar 2017 9.54am) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Mar 17 9.43am

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Originally posted by Harry Beever

So the Republic of Ireland is an impoverished, lawless land full of paedophiles? Come off it mate! When was the last time you were there?

Ta me anseo anois. ( i am here right now ).

you want me to back up my assertions with some statistics or some data ? you heard of the Magdalene laundry or what happened in Tuam recently ?

you heard of whole towns and regions devastated by emigration ?

All i am saying, is that the whole UK/Ireland thing. The whole conflict thing....is not as simple as black and white. Not just goodies and baddies.

There is still a statue to Oliver Cromwell at Whitehall. How would that make me feel about paying tribute on rememberance Sunday to the dead of WW1 say ?

And when Tony Blair goes and bombs the sh1t out of a faraway country full of innocent brown people, how safe does that make me feel travelling in the morning rush hour on the Tube.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Mar 2017 9.54am)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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hedgehog50 Croydon 22 Mar 17 9.48am
Do you think the Pope will make him a saint? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 22 Mar 17 9.48am

Do you think the Pope will make him a saint?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Mar 17 10.00am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Do you think the Pope will make him a saint? john paul II would have. ages ago they did canonize Charlemagne. A bloke who would make joseph Stalin or Hitler look like a gentle soul. McGuinness stood firmly against abortion, so certainly the pope has a poster of him in his bedroom. Beside his poster of General Pinochet, renaud de chatillon and the various Conquistadors. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Mar 17 10.00am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you think the Pope will make him a saint?

john paul II would have.

ages ago they did canonize Charlemagne. A bloke who would make joseph Stalin or Hitler look like a gentle soul.

McGuinness stood firmly against abortion, so certainly the pope has a poster of him in his bedroom. Beside his poster of General Pinochet, renaud de chatillon and the various Conquistadors.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Mar 17 10.28am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I mentioned earlier in the thread that peace talks happened, or the catalyst for them was something to do with informers. I can't remember the details but the ex squaddie I spoke to seemed to think so. It might've been the RUC were buying and gathering up so many the IRA knew their time was up soon. I can't remember exactly but that sounds logical. If it were the other way round and Major's government were running out of money then I guess they could've been offering better terms to the IRA and Paisley had to cooperate. I can't remember what he said. Maybe others close to it know. The Hunger Strikes were a big turning point, notably when Bobby Sands won a seat in parliament, during the hunger strikes and the national and international publicity it got effectively highlighted that the armed struggle could never achieve the same kind of acceptance, discussion and coverage of the 'cause'. And it highlighted what Gerry Adams and other moderates had been pushing for, the expansion of the political aspect. Through the 80s, the influence of Sinn Fein became increasingly more potent than that of the Provisional IRA, although the two were inextricably linked - and especially in terms of the campaign on the mainland. The Provisional IRA found that they had greater sympathy when they didn't bomb indiscriminately, and towards the 90s, the realisation that they could garner more sympathy with the british and international public with a phone call and a coded warning, and still achieve mass disruption had pretty much come to dominate. Bombings became infrequent, and typically with advance warnings, and as casualties fell, Sinn Fein grew a greater influence, both over the PIRA and in Irish politics. Where as in the 60s and 70s, Sinn Fein was really just a 'outlet for the Provisional IRA's messages' by the 90s, the IRA was very much the 'alternative' to dealing with Sinn Fein. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Mar 17 10.28am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I mentioned earlier in the thread that peace talks happened, or the catalyst for them was something to do with informers.

I can't remember the details but the ex squaddie I spoke to seemed to think so. It might've been the RUC were buying and gathering up so many the IRA knew their time was up soon. I can't remember exactly but that sounds logical. If it were the other way round and Major's government were running out of money then I guess they could've been offering better terms to the IRA and Paisley had to cooperate.

I can't remember what he said. Maybe others close to it know.

The Hunger Strikes were a big turning point, notably when Bobby Sands won a seat in parliament, during the hunger strikes and the national and international publicity it got effectively highlighted that the armed struggle could never achieve the same kind of acceptance, discussion and coverage of the 'cause'. And it highlighted what Gerry Adams and other moderates had been pushing for, the expansion of the political aspect.

Through the 80s, the influence of Sinn Fein became increasingly more potent than that of the Provisional IRA, although the two were inextricably linked - and especially in terms of the campaign on the mainland.

The Provisional IRA found that they had greater sympathy when they didn't bomb indiscriminately, and towards the 90s, the realisation that they could garner more sympathy with the british and international public with a phone call and a coded warning, and still achieve mass disruption had pretty much come to dominate.

Bombings became infrequent, and typically with advance warnings, and as casualties fell, Sinn Fein grew a greater influence, both over the PIRA and in Irish politics.

Where as in the 60s and 70s, Sinn Fein was really just a 'outlet for the Provisional IRA's messages' by the 90s, the IRA was very much the 'alternative' to dealing with Sinn Fein.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 22 Mar 17 10.48am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The Hunger Strikes were a big turning point, notably when Bobby Sands won a seat in parliament, during the hunger strikes and the national and international publicity it got effectively highlighted that the armed struggle could never achieve the same kind of acceptance, discussion and coverage of the 'cause'. And it highlighted what Gerry Adams and other moderates had been pushing for, the expansion of the political aspect. Through the 80s, the influence of Sinn Fein became increasingly more potent than that of the Provisional IRA, although the two were inextricably linked - and especially in terms of the campaign on the mainland. The Provisional IRA found that they had greater sympathy when they didn't bomb indiscriminately, and towards the 90s, the realisation that they could garner more sympathy with the british and international public with a phone call and a coded warning, and still achieve mass disruption had pretty much come to dominate. Bombings became infrequent, and typically with advance warnings, and as casualties fell, Sinn Fein grew a greater influence, both over the PIRA and in Irish politics. Where as in the 60s and 70s, Sinn Fein was really just a 'outlet for the Provisional IRA's messages' by the 90s, the IRA was very much the 'alternative' to dealing with Sinn Fein. LOL, that's like calling Himmler a moderate. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 22 Mar 17 10.48am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The Hunger Strikes were a big turning point, notably when Bobby Sands won a seat in parliament, during the hunger strikes and the national and international publicity it got effectively highlighted that the armed struggle could never achieve the same kind of acceptance, discussion and coverage of the 'cause'. And it highlighted what Gerry Adams and other moderates had been pushing for, the expansion of the political aspect.

Bombings became infrequent, and typically with advance warnings, and as casualties fell, Sinn Fein grew a greater influence, both over the PIRA and in Irish politics.

Where as in the 60s and 70s, Sinn Fein was really just a 'outlet for the Provisional IRA's messages' by the 90s, the IRA was very much the 'alternative' to dealing with Sinn Fein.

LOL, that's like calling Himmler a moderate.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Cannonball High in the Ozarks. 22 Mar 17 11.13am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio De Valera was a hypocrite. Spent his whole career promising to fight for a united ireland. Then he sh@t himself when offered it to support the allies. The prospect of a lorryload of unionists in De valera's cosy little closed-shop was a step too far for this psychopath. De Valera wasn't even irish,he was born in New York and his father was Spanish. Touch my coffee and I will slap you so hard even Google won't be able to find you.
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Cannonball

High in the Ozarks. 22 Mar 17 11.13am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

De Valera was a hypocrite. Spent his whole career promising to fight for a united ireland. Then he sh@t himself when offered it to support the allies. The prospect of a lorryload of unionists in De valera's cosy little closed-shop was a step too far for this psychopath.

De Valera wasn't even irish,he was born in New York and his father was Spanish.

Touch my coffee and I will slap you so hard even Google won't be able to find you.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Mar 17 11.39am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 LOL, that's like calling Himmler a moderate. More like Hess or Speer I'd have said, than Himmler. Adams has always been of the view that the 'armed struggle alone' would not be enough. They were certainly progressives, in so much as they realised early on, that a military victory wasn't achievable. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Mar 17 11.39am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

LOL, that's like calling Himmler a moderate.

More like Hess or Speer I'd have said, than Himmler. Adams has always been of the view that the 'armed struggle alone' would not be enough. They were certainly progressives, in so much as they realised early on, that a military victory wasn't achievable.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Mar 17 11.41am
senior Sinn Fein figures.....Gerry Adams, Mary Lou McDonald. both with British surnames. The Queen....German. prince Phillip....Greek. De Valera...Spanish/american as discussed above. William of Orange....Dutch. i am looking forward to Prince Charles announcing his regnal name upon his coronation..... King Seamus the first Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Mar 17 11.41am

senior Sinn Fein figures.....Gerry Adams, Mary Lou McDonald.

both with British surnames.

The Queen....German.
prince Phillip....Greek.

De Valera...Spanish/american as discussed above.

William of Orange....Dutch.

i am looking forward to Prince Charles announcing his regnal name upon his coronation.....

King Seamus the first

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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