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Man transforms himself into a 'sexless alien'

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Part Time James Flag 06 Mar 17 9.50pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

You'd like to think. Although in the article it does state he'd spent time with doctors in his teens trying to deal with this.

I guess its not really all that different from people who have all kinds of face piercings and tattoos - just a more 'extreme' form of that.

I have two face piercings and nine tattoos. But then again I looked weird before I had any of that done.

Edited by Part Time James (06 Mar 2017 9.50pm)

 




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tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 9.58am Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It might not harm anyone else directly but it cold harm society and cost the tax payer. What is acceptable changes with time and becomes more 'normal' as a result. What is acceptable and what is good for society are not necessarily the same thing of course.

Indeed, what do you think is good for society and to what extent do you think what is acceptable inhibits or encourages that?

 


A one and a two...

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Mar 17 10.39am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It might not harm anyone else directly but it cold harm society and cost the tax payer. What is acceptable changes with time and becomes more 'normal' as a result. What is acceptable and what is good for society are not necessarily the same thing of course.

I don't think it can harm society to have people 'expressing themselves' - society consists of individual people. Society only exists as a social construction created out of the social interactions of each of these people. So arguably, its a benefit, if it contributes to ongoing discourses in society

In this instance, the guy is in the US and paying for his own surgery, so it doesn't really affect the tax payer.

I would argue that where the NHS covers such surgery it should only be on the recommendation of psychiatrists following attempts to treat a disorder in more conventional means.

Long term, treating people with cosmetic surgery relating to body dysmorphia and similar issues, probably works out cheaper than treating people long term for depression, substance abuse disorders, anxiety disorders etc.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Mar 17 10.40am

Originally posted by Part Time James

I have two face piercings and nine tattoos. But then again I looked weird before I had any of that done.

Edited by Part Time James (06 Mar 2017 9.50pm)

I've always been a bit of a weird kid. Although I have no piercings or tattoos - they're too permanent for me, I tend to be a bit mercurial.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Mar 17 10.48am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

When does this stuff stop being self expression and start being mental illness?
One day it will probably be possible to alter yourself on a genetic level. Where should we draw a line?

According to the DSM-V (diagnostic statisticians manual version V), a mental illness is defined from normal behaviour by two significant factors. One that the individual being diagnosed suffers as a result of their disorder (to the point of requiring medical intervention) and that the criteria for diagnosis from symptoms are met.

So someone who is schizophrenic must have two of the four major symptoms, and be suffering or unable to function in society. As such, who have symptoms of schizophrenia, but can otherwise cope and function in society are not technically mentally ill (i.e. to be mentally ill you effectively have to come into contact with Psychiatry).

This is slightly different where organic disorders occur (such as those caused by brain damage).

So arguably in this case, the mental illness isn't the desire to trans to the alien form, but related directly to the individuals 'normal body'.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 11.32am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

According to the DSM-V (diagnostic statisticians manual version V), a mental illness is defined from normal behaviour by two significant factors. One that the individual being diagnosed suffers as a result of their disorder (to the point of requiring medical intervention) and that the criteria for diagnosis from symptoms are met.

So someone who is schizophrenic must have two of the four major symptoms, and be suffering or unable to function in society. As such, who have symptoms of schizophrenia, but can otherwise cope and function in society are not technically mentally ill (i.e. to be mentally ill you effectively have to come into contact with Psychiatry).

This is slightly different where organic disorders occur (such as those caused by brain damage).

So arguably in this case, the mental illness isn't the desire to trans to the alien form, but related directly to the individuals 'normal body'.

There is the clinical definition but what concerns me is what it says about our society when people wish to resort to these extreme expressions. Clearly they do not feel that they can live a conventional existence and the human race kind of depends on conventional people and relationships in order to exist. We already have a society where more and more people live alone and find it difficult to function with others or within the demands of the modern world. Is society failing if more and more people cannot cope with it's expectations and what does that mean for the future of the human race?

 

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Part Time James Flag 07 Mar 17 11.35am Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I've always been a bit of a weird kid. Although I have no piercings or tattoos - they're too permanent for me, I tend to be a bit mercurial.

Piercings come out. I took my Prince Albert out and you can't even see the scar.

My tattoos are all hidden if I wear clothes, which I sometimes do.

 




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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 11.35am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by tome

Indeed, what do you think is good for society and to what extent do you think what is acceptable inhibits or encourages that?

Firtly, it depends if such behaviour really does impact on society. Clearly the rights of individuals and the needs of society have to be weighed as they always are in making policy and law.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Mar 17 5.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is the clinical definition but what concerns me is what it says about our society when people wish to resort to these extreme expressions. Clearly they do not feel that they can live a conventional existence and the human race kind of depends on conventional people and relationships in order to exist. We already have a society where more and more people live alone and find it difficult to function with others or within the demands of the modern world. Is society failing if more and more people cannot cope with it's expectations and what does that mean for the future of the human race?

Thing to remember is that 'the norm' is just a average, and that for the most part the norm and those outside the norm interact without issue. If you have a world where the norm is 'extensive body modification' people with extensive body modifications make up the common people.

When you look at subcultures in society, they're not really all that different in their social interactions and relationships within their subculture, with most if not all, engaging in every day interaction with the mainstream cultural groups.

Usually as well, the bigger a subculture becomes, the more tolerated and entwined it becomes with mainstream culture, which tends to pick up and adopt elements of it.

20 years ago, comic books were for geeky men, nerds and a very few 'strange girls'. These days its mainstream culture appropriated.

Same rules apply, the more common something 'strange and different' becomes, the more accepted and entwined it becomes with the norm. Did anyone talk about BDSM back in the 80s, these days its light romance reading and best seller material.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 5.25pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Thing to remember is that 'the norm' is just a average, and that for the most part the norm and those outside the norm interact without issue. If you have a world where the norm is 'extensive body modification' people with extensive body modifications make up the common people.

When you look at subcultures in society, they're not really all that different in their social interactions and relationships within their subculture, with most if not all, engaging in every day interaction with the mainstream cultural groups.

Usually as well, the bigger a subculture becomes, the more tolerated and entwined it becomes with mainstream culture, which tends to pick up and adopt elements of it.

20 years ago, comic books were for geeky men, nerds and a very few 'strange girls'. These days its mainstream culture appropriated.

Same rules apply, the more common something 'strange and different' becomes, the more accepted and entwined it becomes with the norm. Did anyone talk about BDSM back in the 80s, these days its light romance reading and best seller material.

As long as behaviour does not come into conflict with societies interests then it is not a problem. However, sometimes the impact of certain behaviour is not recognised until it is too late. It is not always clear cut either.
For example, the use of the contraceptive pill. Absolutely great for women's freedoms and reducing unwanted children etc but leading to terrible population stagnation in a population already in decline and leading to all the biggest issues we currently face. Ironically, our biggest problems in the future will come from foreign populations that were once out of control.

 

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tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 5.40pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As long as behaviour does not come into conflict with societies interests then it is not a problem. However, sometimes the impact of certain behaviour is not recognised until it is too late. It is not always clear cut either.
For example, the use of the contraceptive pill. Absolutely great for women's freedoms and reducing unwanted children etc but leading to terrible population stagnation in a population already in decline and leading to all the biggest issues we currently face. Ironically, our biggest problems in the future will come from foreign populations that were once out of control.

I think this is the interesting bit, mostly politics is less about what the ideal scenario looks and more about how to get there. That usually involves the political mates and allies, rather than a shared vision.

But your example of the pill is interesting - particularly because I was under the impression you thought the population was too large in any case? Isn't decline therefore a desired outcome?

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 6.16pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by tome

I think this is the interesting bit, mostly politics is less about what the ideal scenario looks and more about how to get there. That usually involves the political mates and allies, rather than a shared vision.

But your example of the pill is interesting - particularly because I was under the impression you thought the population was too large in any case? Isn't decline therefore a desired outcome?

You would think so but actually no. Because the population problem is a global one much like pollution.
All we succeeded in doing by reducing our birthrate was to require an influx of immigrant labour and tax payers. We also created a huge disproportion between old and young as life expectancy increased making health care a much bigger problem.
The population problem we face in the future will be one of migrations from poorer or strife ridden areas to Europe. It has already started and those who keep calling for more provision for refugees need to wake up and see the bigger picture. The near future is very bleak indeed unless we increase food production and distribute it more evenly, stop fighting each other creating refugees and famine, particularly in Africa. Encourage people to stay where they are by improving their living standards and end our dependency on fossil fuels.
You know this all probably ain't gonna happen.

 

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