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Part Time James 06 Mar 17 9.50pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
You'd like to think. Although in the article it does state he'd spent time with doctors in his teens trying to deal with this. I guess its not really all that different from people who have all kinds of face piercings and tattoos - just a more 'extreme' form of that. I have two face piercings and nine tattoos. But then again I looked weird before I had any of that done. Edited by Part Time James (06 Mar 2017 9.50pm)
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 9.58am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It might not harm anyone else directly but it cold harm society and cost the tax payer. What is acceptable changes with time and becomes more 'normal' as a result. What is acceptable and what is good for society are not necessarily the same thing of course. Indeed, what do you think is good for society and to what extent do you think what is acceptable inhibits or encourages that?
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Mar 17 10.39am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It might not harm anyone else directly but it cold harm society and cost the tax payer. What is acceptable changes with time and becomes more 'normal' as a result. What is acceptable and what is good for society are not necessarily the same thing of course. I don't think it can harm society to have people 'expressing themselves' - society consists of individual people. Society only exists as a social construction created out of the social interactions of each of these people. So arguably, its a benefit, if it contributes to ongoing discourses in society In this instance, the guy is in the US and paying for his own surgery, so it doesn't really affect the tax payer. I would argue that where the NHS covers such surgery it should only be on the recommendation of psychiatrists following attempts to treat a disorder in more conventional means. Long term, treating people with cosmetic surgery relating to body dysmorphia and similar issues, probably works out cheaper than treating people long term for depression, substance abuse disorders, anxiety disorders etc.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Mar 17 10.40am | |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
I have two face piercings and nine tattoos. But then again I looked weird before I had any of that done. Edited by Part Time James (06 Mar 2017 9.50pm) I've always been a bit of a weird kid. Although I have no piercings or tattoos - they're too permanent for me, I tend to be a bit mercurial.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Mar 17 10.48am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
When does this stuff stop being self expression and start being mental illness? According to the DSM-V (diagnostic statisticians manual version V), a mental illness is defined from normal behaviour by two significant factors. One that the individual being diagnosed suffers as a result of their disorder (to the point of requiring medical intervention) and that the criteria for diagnosis from symptoms are met. So someone who is schizophrenic must have two of the four major symptoms, and be suffering or unable to function in society. As such, who have symptoms of schizophrenia, but can otherwise cope and function in society are not technically mentally ill (i.e. to be mentally ill you effectively have to come into contact with Psychiatry). This is slightly different where organic disorders occur (such as those caused by brain damage). So arguably in this case, the mental illness isn't the desire to trans to the alien form, but related directly to the individuals 'normal body'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Mar 17 11.32am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
According to the DSM-V (diagnostic statisticians manual version V), a mental illness is defined from normal behaviour by two significant factors. One that the individual being diagnosed suffers as a result of their disorder (to the point of requiring medical intervention) and that the criteria for diagnosis from symptoms are met. So someone who is schizophrenic must have two of the four major symptoms, and be suffering or unable to function in society. As such, who have symptoms of schizophrenia, but can otherwise cope and function in society are not technically mentally ill (i.e. to be mentally ill you effectively have to come into contact with Psychiatry). This is slightly different where organic disorders occur (such as those caused by brain damage). So arguably in this case, the mental illness isn't the desire to trans to the alien form, but related directly to the individuals 'normal body'. There is the clinical definition but what concerns me is what it says about our society when people wish to resort to these extreme expressions. Clearly they do not feel that they can live a conventional existence and the human race kind of depends on conventional people and relationships in order to exist. We already have a society where more and more people live alone and find it difficult to function with others or within the demands of the modern world. Is society failing if more and more people cannot cope with it's expectations and what does that mean for the future of the human race?
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Part Time James 07 Mar 17 11.35am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I've always been a bit of a weird kid. Although I have no piercings or tattoos - they're too permanent for me, I tend to be a bit mercurial. Piercings come out. I took my Prince Albert out and you can't even see the scar. My tattoos are all hidden if I wear clothes, which I sometimes do.
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Mar 17 11.35am | |
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Originally posted by tome
Indeed, what do you think is good for society and to what extent do you think what is acceptable inhibits or encourages that? Firtly, it depends if such behaviour really does impact on society. Clearly the rights of individuals and the needs of society have to be weighed as they always are in making policy and law.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Mar 17 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
There is the clinical definition but what concerns me is what it says about our society when people wish to resort to these extreme expressions. Clearly they do not feel that they can live a conventional existence and the human race kind of depends on conventional people and relationships in order to exist. We already have a society where more and more people live alone and find it difficult to function with others or within the demands of the modern world. Is society failing if more and more people cannot cope with it's expectations and what does that mean for the future of the human race? Thing to remember is that 'the norm' is just a average, and that for the most part the norm and those outside the norm interact without issue. If you have a world where the norm is 'extensive body modification' people with extensive body modifications make up the common people. When you look at subcultures in society, they're not really all that different in their social interactions and relationships within their subculture, with most if not all, engaging in every day interaction with the mainstream cultural groups. Usually as well, the bigger a subculture becomes, the more tolerated and entwined it becomes with mainstream culture, which tends to pick up and adopt elements of it. 20 years ago, comic books were for geeky men, nerds and a very few 'strange girls'. These days its mainstream culture appropriated. Same rules apply, the more common something 'strange and different' becomes, the more accepted and entwined it becomes with the norm. Did anyone talk about BDSM back in the 80s, these days its light romance reading and best seller material.
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Mar 17 5.25pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Thing to remember is that 'the norm' is just a average, and that for the most part the norm and those outside the norm interact without issue. If you have a world where the norm is 'extensive body modification' people with extensive body modifications make up the common people. When you look at subcultures in society, they're not really all that different in their social interactions and relationships within their subculture, with most if not all, engaging in every day interaction with the mainstream cultural groups. Usually as well, the bigger a subculture becomes, the more tolerated and entwined it becomes with mainstream culture, which tends to pick up and adopt elements of it. 20 years ago, comic books were for geeky men, nerds and a very few 'strange girls'. These days its mainstream culture appropriated. Same rules apply, the more common something 'strange and different' becomes, the more accepted and entwined it becomes with the norm. Did anyone talk about BDSM back in the 80s, these days its light romance reading and best seller material. As long as behaviour does not come into conflict with societies interests then it is not a problem. However, sometimes the impact of certain behaviour is not recognised until it is too late. It is not always clear cut either.
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 5.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
As long as behaviour does not come into conflict with societies interests then it is not a problem. However, sometimes the impact of certain behaviour is not recognised until it is too late. It is not always clear cut either. I think this is the interesting bit, mostly politics is less about what the ideal scenario looks and more about how to get there. That usually involves the political mates and allies, rather than a shared vision. But your example of the pill is interesting - particularly because I was under the impression you thought the population was too large in any case? Isn't decline therefore a desired outcome?
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Mar 17 6.16pm | |
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Originally posted by tome
I think this is the interesting bit, mostly politics is less about what the ideal scenario looks and more about how to get there. That usually involves the political mates and allies, rather than a shared vision. But your example of the pill is interesting - particularly because I was under the impression you thought the population was too large in any case? Isn't decline therefore a desired outcome? You would think so but actually no. Because the population problem is a global one much like pollution.
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