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Another black man shot by police in USA

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Jul 16 12.58pm

Originally posted by 7mins

FBI stats kinda point towards why blacks have more interaction with cops than whites.

Which makes sense, given the economic disparity. The issue is prevalent and I suspect the issue is more about how police deal with the poor. The issue of black killings gets more coverage because historically groups like the NAACP are very well established in the US and have a history of dealing with racism, oppression of the black community and police violence - so they're better positioned to make black lives matter a significant presence.

That isn't the issue, whether they're racist or not, its the legitimised murder of civilians by state authorities without recourse.

 


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7mins Flag In the bush 08 Jul 16 1.22pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Which makes sense, given the economic disparity. The issue is prevalent and I suspect the issue is more about how police deal with the poor. The issue of black killings gets more coverage because historically groups like the NAACP are very well established in the US and have a history of dealing with racism, oppression of the black community and police violence - so they're better positioned to make black lives matter a significant presence.

That isn't the issue, whether they're racist or not, its the legitimised murder of civilians by state authorities without recourse.

I definitely feel it's more a poverty thing than race. The real question is, why are so many black people in poverty?

 

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qlip26 Flag New York City 08 Jul 16 2.02pm Send a Private Message to qlip26 Add qlip26 as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

I definitely feel it's more a poverty thing than race. The real question is, why are so many black people in poverty?

it's tough to write out a concise answer but there are many reasons. the most pervasive are the american education and criminal justice system.

no more than 50 years ago, the south east was completely segregated by race. said segregation was sanctioned by state and local governments with tacit approval from the federal government. even north eastern cities like nyc and boston maintained segregated neighborhoods and school districts. we still live with this legacy today.

as for the criminal justice system, the usa has the highest incarceration rate in the world. most are in jail for non violent drug offenses. despite studies that show drug use is almost identical across all races, overwhelmingly black urban areas are targeted by law enforcement and the prison population reflects this disparity. it is a vicious cycle because employers in almost all states to permitted to ask applicants if they have ever been convicted of a crime. as such, ex cons have an extremely difficult time finding work.

Edited by qlip26 (08 Jul 2016 2.02pm)

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 08 Jul 16 2.24pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

If it is reasonable for you to know the law pertaining to where you reside, and you break that law, then expect the consequences.

I personally have no time for people who blame the state/government/establishment for all their life woe's.

It's an easy cop out. You may live/come from an area of poverty and crime, you make a choice whether you follow that cycle or get off and try to break that chain and make something of yourself.

Interesting to know it is now being said that the suspect who shot dead 5 white police officers said to the police negotiator he hated white people especially white officers?

That would make him racist would it not ?

Edited by dannyh (08 Jul 2016 2.26pm)

Sorry I stand corrected he wanted to kill "whites" especially officers

Edited by dannyh (08 Jul 2016 2.28pm)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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qlip26 Flag New York City 08 Jul 16 2.47pm Send a Private Message to qlip26 Add qlip26 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

If it is reasonable for you to know the law pertaining to where you reside, and you break that law, then expect the consequences.

I personally have no time for people who blame the state/government/establishment for all their life woe's.

It's an easy cop out. You may live/come from an area of poverty and crime, you make a choice whether you follow that cycle or get off and try to break that chain and make something of yourself.

you're making a strawman argument out of this. no one would disagree.

if you think that a legacy of oppression isn't a valid reason to explain why black americans earn less money than white americans, come out and say it.

Originally posted by dannyh

Interesting to know it is now being said that the suspect who shot dead 5 white police officers said to the police negotiator he hated white people especially white officers?

That would make him racist would it not ?

Edited by dannyh (08 Jul 2016 2.26pm)

Sorry I stand corrected he wanted to kill "whites" especially officers

Edited by dannyh (08 Jul 2016 2.28pm)

of course it does. again, no rational person would disagree.

 

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7mins Flag In the bush 08 Jul 16 5.37pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

This is gonna put cops more on edge.

 

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Mr Palaceman Flag 08 Jul 16 6.55pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Which makes sense, given the economic disparity. The issue is prevalent and I suspect the issue is more about how police deal with the poor. The issue of black killings gets more coverage because historically groups like the NAACP are very well established in the US and have a history of dealing with racism, oppression of the black community and police violence - so they're better positioned to make black lives matter a significant presence.

That isn't the issue, whether they're racist or not, its the legitimised murder of civilians by state authorities without recourse.

There is obviously a racial element to this issue. To ignore that just undermines that issue and perpetuates the problem.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Jul 16 7.53pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

There is obviously a racial element to this issue. To ignore that just undermines that issue and perpetuates the problem.

The issue is that black people are far more likely to commit crime than whites and therefore more likely to have contact with the police and rightly or wrongly be suspected by the Police.
Officers faced with potentially dangerous suspects won't gave a damn about the unfairness of society in that moment.

 

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7mins Flag In the bush 09 Jul 16 2.37am Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The issue is that black people are far more likely to commit crime than whites and therefore more likely to have contact with the police and rightly or wrongly be suspected by the Police.
Officers faced with potentially dangerous suspects won't gave a damn about the unfairness of society in that moment.

Sadly.... I think this is the case. To solve this issue, we need to find out why black people in USA commit so much crime (compared to other ethnic groups).

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Jul 16 10.51am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

Sadly.... I think this is the case. To solve this issue, we need to find out why black people in USA commit so much crime (compared to other ethnic groups).

Well resolving those kind of social issues is frustratingly complex.

The question here is why black people appear to get shot by police regularly.

I have never accepted that poverty automatically means people become criminals. Plenty of poor people don't. Even so, I am prepared to accept that some people live in circumstances where avoiding a life of crime is virtually impossible.
To be blunt, white people dominate Western society, so any progress minorities want to make with their socioeconomic situations will require the help and cooperation of the white ruling classes.
It is understandable that some black people see white as the enemy because they see them as the oppressor. Unfortunately, it is also understandable that many white people see the black minority as a blight on their society since they are far more likely to commit crime than whites and whites are far more likely to be the victims.
I really can't solve the conundrum but it is clear that nothing will be resolved by divisive posturing and the reticence displayed by many in talking openly about the real issues. The us and them attitude is a large part of the problem but removing that is of course exasperated by the resentments on both sides.

The police shootings themselves and the predisposition of the police officers when tackling black suspects are a result of all those issues I'm sure. Add that to the fear, the insufficient training and in some cases experience of those officers and it makes for a dangerous cocktail.

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Jul 16 4.02pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by qlip26

of course it does. again, no rational person would disagree.

No im not, read back over the thread, points were made about crimes being comitted and the over use of violence against people who comit crime, my point being if you don't comit a crime you have no reason to be involved with the police.

I suggest you look up what Straw man arguments actually are.

In answer to your more, shall we say accusatory question about black oppression being the reason for low wages income etc for black people, I would like you to think back to the most persecuted race of all of human history, The Jews. Have they had the same social stigma's attached to them since the Nazi holocaust ? do they suffer the same "ghetto" mentality, or persecution complex. I think they don't, and yet they have a much bigger case for "hating humanity" and their lot in life than any other race on the planet.

Why is that do you think ?


Edited by dannyh (09 Jul 2016 4.11pm)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Jul 16 8.36pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

No im not, read back over the thread, points were made about crimes being comitted and the over use of violence against people who comit crime, my point being if you don't comit a crime you have no reason to be involved with the police.

I suggest you look up what Straw man arguments actually are.

In answer to your more, shall we say accusatory question about black oppression being the reason for low wages income etc for black people, I would like you to think back to the most persecuted race of all of human history, The Jews. Have they had the same social stigma's attached to them since the Nazi holocaust ? do they suffer the same "ghetto" mentality, or persecution complex. I think they don't, and yet they have a much bigger case for "hating humanity" and their lot in life than any other race on the planet.

Why is that do you think ?


Edited by dannyh (09 Jul 2016 4.11pm)

You raise an interesting point.

I think it's a bit of a cliche to say that Jewish people always do well in life. There is no doubt that some seem to have had a talent for business and making money but there have still been crime ridden Jewish ghettos. Speaking simplistically, it is ironic that it has been the adaptability of the Jew that seems to have made them unpopular throughout history.

 

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