Yep. But the issue is as well that the jury and the public believe this is the case yet there is no proof and every single football match and every big game what happened before the gate opened was the nom. The poor parents of most of the dead know their loved ones were sober, they got there early. Some of the other normal stuff has been brushed under the carpet.

If the person in charge on the day had any experience of big football matches it probably wouldn't have happened. The game might have been delayed, there might have been problems outside the ground, more people would've been employed or more turnstyles open, but what went on that day before the gates were opened would've gone on at least 1 semi final and final every season in that decade. It would've been Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs, whoever.

Or they could've just reduced capacity in terraces by 10% or something for away ends for big games or all terraces for semi's and finals.

But I do have an issue with LFC fans turning up today for big games and trying and gaining entry ticketless. Definitely happened at Selhurst. Didn't it happen in Instanbul as well? There are without doubt a minority who are selfish and care free and they need to be shamed.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Apr 2016 3.29pm)

Don't you think that LFC fans have been shamed enough?

This was a disgusting case of smearing a community and club by lying Senior police officers and colluding newspapers among others.

I can not think of a more heinous way to treat people who lost loved ones. Fathers and sons, mothers and daughters.

And yet you try and keep the focus on those you call a 'minority', even though the enquiry has concluded that NO FAN WAS TO BLAME. I say again, NO FAN WAS TO BLAME. That's those who had a drink, Not to Blame or those who did not have a ticket, not to blame.

Are you trying to continue the lie? Bringing up Instanbul in relation to this is just another way of deflecting at least some responsiblitiy towards those that have been wronged and were in no way responsible.

From one of your previous posts...

"I agree with the ticketless issue. It may or may not have contributed to what happened"

It did not contribute but still you try to suggest that it did..

I do recognise that you have posted some very good points in this thread, as have others but reading your posts, it seems to me that you offer an excuse to those who acted in a shameful and dishonest way.

I read the previous post that roughly stated that Duckenfield had a tough job and it would have been hard to do that job on the day.

It goes without saying that it was a tough day and you agreed with that post but the subsequent behaviour of Duckenfield was far from human, in fact I would say that it was inhuman, rather like leaving a person dying in the road and leaving the scene to avoid prosecusion.

After reading posts on this subject for many years. I have come to the conclusion that smear campaigns run by papers like The Sun, work. Some were so outraged by the lies printed about a whole community, that even to this day it Sours their view of the fans behaviour on that tragic day.

I'm a fairly hard nosed guy but I must say that I have been truly moved by some of the accounts I have resently heard from those that lost loved ones, extremely upsetting.

As a Palace supporter, I cannot not stand Liverpool fans but it's a game and that is as far as it goes.

I think that the way that the city has handled this tragedy, is testimony to the steadfast spirit and determination for justice of the people of Liverpool.

Now we need those responsible to be held to account.

I was talking about a minority who conveniently forget what happened when they want to get in for an important match.

I haven't tried to deflect anything from those responsible. Duckenfield, SYPolice, SWFC, The FA who have escaped all responsibility.

I did indeed say ticketless fans didn't cause what happened. I did however say the knowledge that that is what used to happen gave an image of what can cause bad decisions on the day. And in the post you're referring to above,

The people who died were completely innocent, maybe hardly any fans actually got in, maybe they didn't get in before it reached its worst. But people without tickets could have and could still make an incident worse or even cause it to happen in the 1st place. If you said this in the company of people foreign to '80s football or even the odd game of modern football they'll think you're insensitive and prejudiced. Several clubs tried it on then, now only one club I know of try it on now. Inexcusable and shameless minority.

The point is fella is that a minority could cause something to happen again to innocentpeople. But if you excuse people who climb over walls and cause overcrowding in aisles of seating then ok.

I know, I read it yesterday. I know that it didn't cause the disaster, but it could cause something to happen again in certain circumstances. Who can be sure? The 3-3 game was last year. Istanbul was 16 years after Hillsborough. But it's excusable after 96 people died because of crushing.

I think I might give up.

But I do have an issue with LFC fans turning up today for big games and trying and gaining entry ticketless. Definitely happened at Selhurst. Didn't it happen in Instanbul as well? There are without doubt a minority who are selfish and care free and they need to be shamed.