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 Stirlingsays  08 Apr 15 10.55pm |
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Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| imbored UK 08 Apr 15 11.08pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers.
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| Stirlingsays 08 Apr 15 11.16pm |
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Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Apr 15 11.16pm |
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Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. Indeed, but it's a small minority of scumbags who ultimately start the problem....
Pro USA & Israel |
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| imbored UK 08 Apr 15 11.29pm |
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Quote Jimenez at 08 Apr 2015 11.16pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. Indeed, but it's a small minority of scumbags who ultimately start the problem.... It's a dynamic really rather than something anyone started. I don't think we can point a finger and say it's solely this communities fault or solely polices fault. For instance I can certainly see why cops have to be tougher in the US than UK, but I can also see why incidents like the black guy being shot in the back today can inflame tensions and make people question why something like that would ever happen.
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| TheJudge 09 Apr 15 10.00am |
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Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm
From Hol poster Kersal "I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided. I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position. I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one. I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters. I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business. Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone: 1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms. 2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues". A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?" His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here". At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him. I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies. Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared. I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year. I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it. It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."
UKIP have reasonably highlighted issues surrounding immigration and they are only saying what many people are thinking. Yes you could call it the race card but that would be hugely oversimplified. Edited by TheJudge (09 Apr 2015 10.02am)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Apr 15 10.18am |
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Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. I disagree with this. The problem with the Police in the US isn't with racism, per se, it just that the black community of the US has in place a number of groups that have a history of racial campaigning. Looking at the statistics the US police shoot and kill a staggering amount of unarmed people and resort to leathal force remarkably quickly. Its not just with black people, its just that the black community having experienced racism in the past from racist police forces have the capacity for successful protest. A lot of poor white people get shot in exactly the same circumstances but the capacity of 'resistance' to that doesn't exist. It remains localised rather than nationalised news (where as Black and Hispanic communities have 'effective mechanisms of resistance to racism'). The US Police have a very liberal approch to the use of lethal force in poorer communities, and are typically defended by a law that presents a very liberal attitude to the use of firearms prevelent in US Society. Certainly a very large amount of US police killings would be considered murder in the UK.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Apr 15 10.23am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2015 10.18am
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. I disagree with this. The problem with the Police in the US isn't with racism, per se, it just that the black community of the US has in place a number of groups that have a history of racial campaigning. Looking at the statistics the US police shoot and kill a staggering amount of unarmed people and resort to leathal force remarkably quickly. Its not just with black people, its just that the black community having experienced racism in the past from racist police forces have the capacity for successful protest. A lot of poor white people get shot in exactly the same circumstances but the capacity of 'resistance' to that doesn't exist. It remains localised rather than nationalised news (where as Black and Hispanic communities have 'effective mechanisms of resistance to racism'). The US Police have a very liberal approch to the use of lethal force in poorer communities, and are typically defended by a law that presents a very liberal attitude to the use of firearms prevelent in US Society. Certainly a very large amount of US police killings would be considered murder in the UK.
Cops killing black suspects is seen as a civil rights issue and a hangover from an institutional racist approach that's still in living memory. Cops killing white suspects just doesn't carry the same 'historical' weight Fact is both should carry the same weight but they don't and wont. What happens in the US is hardly on the level of the organized Brazilian Death Squads and state sanctioned murder of undesirables but is more the product of the ridiculous gun culture in the US. Edited by The Sash (09 Apr 2015 10.29am)
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| TheJudge 09 Apr 15 12.30pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2015 10.18am
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. I disagree with this. The problem with the Police in the US isn't with racism, per se, it just that the black community of the US has in place a number of groups that have a history of racial campaigning. Looking at the statistics the US police shoot and kill a staggering amount of unarmed people and resort to leathal force remarkably quickly. Its not just with black people, its just that the black community having experienced racism in the past from racist police forces have the capacity for successful protest. A lot of poor white people get shot in exactly the same circumstances but the capacity of 'resistance' to that doesn't exist. It remains localised rather than nationalised news (where as Black and Hispanic communities have 'effective mechanisms of resistance to racism'). The US Police have a very liberal approch to the use of lethal force in poorer communities, and are typically defended by a law that presents a very liberal attitude to the use of firearms prevelent in US Society. Certainly a very large amount of US police killings would be considered murder in the UK. The race card. How about that.
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Apr 15 12.47pm |
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Quote TheJudge at 09 Apr 2015 12.30pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2015 10.18am
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.55pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 10.37pm
Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into.
Yup, I'd say that's about right. It also is true that it's normally a minority of people who actually are the problem.....Most people are fine and just getting on with their lives. Still, the impact of a few nasty incidents can be quite significant upon an individual and cause them to become insular....Which just makes integration even harder. Still, if you choose to re-locate to a country then you should know to expect that some people are going to be arseholes.....It's essentially the same most places if you are in a minority. Swings and roundabouts. Similar with the police in the States for instance. There are a minority of nutters in badges who drag the reputation of them all down and create friction between communities. From a different vantage point the police would claim that they have to be tough on crime because of the problems in those communities. So it ends up being something of a slippery slope with no easy answers. I disagree with this. The problem with the Police in the US isn't with racism, per se, it just that the black community of the US has in place a number of groups that have a history of racial campaigning. Looking at the statistics the US police shoot and kill a staggering amount of unarmed people and resort to leathal force remarkably quickly. Its not just with black people, its just that the black community having experienced racism in the past from racist police forces have the capacity for successful protest. A lot of poor white people get shot in exactly the same circumstances but the capacity of 'resistance' to that doesn't exist. It remains localised rather than nationalised news (where as Black and Hispanic communities have 'effective mechanisms of resistance to racism'). The US Police have a very liberal approch to the use of lethal force in poorer communities, and are typically defended by a law that presents a very liberal attitude to the use of firearms prevelent in US Society. Certainly a very large amount of US police killings would be considered murder in the UK. The race card. How about that. To state a truism about the historical situation, status and social position, especially when in relation to the police, of Black America and the subsequent groups which have evolved from the 60's civil rights movements which today challenge perceived racist policing in a more organised fashion than White America does for white suspects being shot) isn't playing any race card - its a fact.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| iheartcpfc SE25 09 Apr 15 2.18pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.10pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 10.03pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 9.51pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 8.38pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
This is a great post. I find the scapegoating of immigrants disgusting. UKIP in particular have a lot to answer for. I'm ashamed that there are people who speak to others like this in our country, minority or otherwise. This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
Shouldn't you be in bed by now? I too (along with my family) have been a tax paying immigrant in the past (8yrs, not 4.5) and I could mention way more than 2 examples. That was a monthly occurrence tbh. So I speak from experience. Oh well. These things happen. Never will understand immigrants who pull up the drawbridge behind them He isn't suggesting the drawbridge should be pulled up. You don't appear to have understood his post at all. What you do appear to be doing is insulting people who don't agree with you and being generally unpleasant. Perhaps your yellow card is well earned.
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| Pawson Palace Croydon 09 Apr 15 2.51pm |
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Quote iheartcpfc at 09 Apr 2015 2.18pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 10.10pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 10.03pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 9.51pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 8.38pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
This is a great post. I find the scapegoating of immigrants disgusting. UKIP in particular have a lot to answer for. I'm ashamed that there are people who speak to others like this in our country, minority or otherwise. This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
Shouldn't you be in bed by now? I too (along with my family) have been a tax paying immigrant in the past (8yrs, not 4.5) and I could mention way more than 2 examples. That was a monthly occurrence tbh. So I speak from experience. Oh well. These things happen. Never will understand immigrants who pull up the drawbridge behind them He isn't suggesting the drawbridge should be pulled up. You don't appear to have understood his post at all. What you do appear to be doing is insulting people who don't agree with you and being generally unpleasant. Perhaps your yellow card is well earned.
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