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 Superfly  The sun always shines in Catford 03 Apr 14 9.51am |
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Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 9.38am
Quote Superfly at 03 Apr 2014 8.59am
Quote TUX at 02 Apr 2014 7.19pm
Yep, true. They caused it by deciding to go to an FA Cup semi-final and not realising there was going to be a severe bottleneck outside the ground A bottle-neck outside of any arena is the norm and has no bearing whatsoever on things that happen 'inside' an arena. I sat in front of my TV that day to watch the match. What I saw was many hundreds/thousands of fans paying scant regard to their FELLOW supporters! I was a neutral viewer but couldn't believe what I was seeing! Either way, a tragic loss.
I'll ignore the condescension in the first sentence as it wasn't aimed at me. I saw a documentary made within a year or so of the disaster and it showed Liverpool fans pushing at the gates to get in and climbing the fences around the gates to get in, the ob opened the gate to stop the people at the front getting crushed. They should have then taken proper steps to herd the 'free ticketers' to the side pens but anyone who's been to a match back then knows, the 'boys' always had to be behind the goal, all that is after the event, those who got in free are the culprits and their silence is deafening.
You said you saw a documentary within a year - TUX was talking about what he saw on the day. I think he's wrong.
Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre with Superfly in the chorus |
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| Superfly The sun always shines in Catford 03 Apr 14 10.02am |
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To clarify, I mentioned the Sun because of their reporting of the incident and not to belittle any of their readers (as I fear Plane may have suspected)
Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre with Superfly in the chorus |
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| Plane Bromley 03 Apr 14 10.06am |
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Quote Superfly at 03 Apr 2014 9.51am
Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 9.38am
Quote Superfly at 03 Apr 2014 8.59am
Quote TUX at 02 Apr 2014 7.19pm
Yep, true. They caused it by deciding to go to an FA Cup semi-final and not realising there was going to be a severe bottleneck outside the ground A bottle-neck outside of any arena is the norm and has no bearing whatsoever on things that happen 'inside' an arena. I sat in front of my TV that day to watch the match. What I saw was many hundreds/thousands of fans paying scant regard to their FELLOW supporters! I was a neutral viewer but couldn't believe what I was seeing! Either way, a tragic loss.
I'll ignore the condescension in the first sentence as it wasn't aimed at me. I saw a documentary made within a year or so of the disaster and it showed Liverpool fans pushing at the gates to get in and climbing the fences around the gates to get in, the ob opened the gate to stop the people at the front getting crushed. They should have then taken proper steps to herd the 'free ticketers' to the side pens but anyone who's been to a match back then knows, the 'boys' always had to be behind the goal, all that is after the event, those who got in free are the culprits and their silence is deafening.
You said you saw a documentary within a year - TUX was talking about what he saw on the day. I think he's wrong. OK Again OK, take it up with Tux, I have seen some of the footage from the game but I didn't watch the game live (why would I, no Palace), so I can't really comment on that...Oh, I just did!
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| paperhat croydon 03 Apr 14 10.11am |
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I've re-read this entire thread and have changed my opinion. I agree, a banner is entirely what is needed. "The Police scum should be held accountable, personally, for each and every one of the 96 lives lost at Hillsborough - you caused them ALL to die" that should help no end I think.
Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 03 Apr 14 10.15am |
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Banners are sooooooo last year.
COYP |
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| Plane Bromley 03 Apr 14 10.22am |
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Quote paperhat at 03 Apr 2014 10.11am
I've re-read this entire thread and have changed my opinion. I agree, a banner is entirely what is needed. "The Police scum should be held accountable, personally, for each and every one of the 96 lives lost at Hillsborough - you caused them ALL to die" that should help no end I think.
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| paperhat croydon 03 Apr 14 10.37am |
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Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 10.22am
Quote paperhat at 03 Apr 2014 10.11am
I've re-read this entire thread and have changed my opinion. I agree, a banner is entirely what is needed. "The Police scum should be held accountable, personally, for each and every one of the 96 lives lost at Hillsborough - you caused them ALL to die" that should help no end I think.
Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan |
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| j77 nottingham 03 Apr 14 10.38am |
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Scousers used to always push in or "steam" as i think it used to be called. They did it in Istanbul and ruined it for plenty who had tickets and werent allowed in. This with inept ,panic policing all added up to a terrible tragedy. There is plenty that seems to be brushed under the carpet. Police are taking all the blame.
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Kermit8  Hevon 03 Apr 14 10.40am |
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Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 9.38am
Quote Superfly at 03 Apr 2014 8.59am
Quote TUX at 02 Apr 2014 7.19pm
Yep, true. They caused it by deciding to go to an FA Cup semi-final and not realising there was going to be a severe bottleneck outside the ground A bottle-neck outside of any arena is the norm and has no bearing whatsoever on things that happen 'inside' an arena. I sat in front of my TV that day to watch the match. What I saw was many hundreds/thousands of fans paying scant regard to their FELLOW supporters! I was a neutral viewer but couldn't believe what I was seeing! Either way, a tragic loss.
I'll ignore the condescension in the first sentence as it wasn't aimed at me. I saw a documentary made within a year or so of the disaster and it showed Liverpool fans pushing at the gates to get in and climbing the fences around the gates to get in, the ob opened the gate to stop the people at the front getting crushed. They should have then taken proper steps to herd the 'free ticketers' to the side pens but anyone who's been to a match back then knows, the 'boys' always had to be behind the goal, all that is after the event, those who got in free are the culprits and their silence is deafening.
There has been no definitive number of course but logic dictates there must have been a fair few hundred a least. And West Yorks Police supervisors - at an FA Cup semi-final didn't and couldn't cope with that and ultimately made criminally negligent decisions which they tried then to cover up. If only they had filtered the crowd as before. Doh! btw re: your memory - My reference points are 1976-84. I was following Palace home and away all over the place and it was what happened in those seasons which put the fences up. What years did you go away regularly during that zenith of hooliganism? Oh, yeah Wiki? Me? When it comes to football? Ha. No chance. All in me bonce as if it happened yesterday.
Edited by Kermit8 (03 Apr 2014 10.49am)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 03 Apr 14 10.47am |
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Quote paperhat at 03 Apr 2014 10.37am
Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 10.22am
Quote paperhat at 03 Apr 2014 10.11am
I've re-read this entire thread and have changed my opinion. I agree, a banner is entirely what is needed. "The Police scum should be held accountable, personally, for each and every one of the 96 lives lost at Hillsborough - you caused them ALL to die" that should help no end I think.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Plane Bromley 03 Apr 14 11.04am |
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Quote Kermit8 at 03 Apr 2014 10.40am
Quote Plane at 03 Apr 2014 9.38am
I'll ignore the condescension in the first sentence as it wasn't aimed at me. I saw a documentary made within a year or so of the disaster and it showed Liverpool fans pushing at the gates to get in and climbing the fences around the gates to get in, the ob opened the gate to stop the people at the front getting crushed. They should have then taken proper steps to herd the 'free ticketers' to the side pens but anyone who's been to a match back then knows, the 'boys' always had to be behind the goal, all that is after the event, those who got in free are the culprits and their silence is deafening.
There has been no definitive number of course but logic dictates there must have been a fair few hundred a least. And West Yorks Police supervisors - at an FA Cup semi-final didn't and couldn't cope with that and ultimately made criminally negligent decisions which they tried then to cover up. btw re: your memory - My reference points are 1976-84. I was following Palace home and away all over the place and it was what happened in those seasons which put the fences up. What years did you go away during that zenith of hooliganism? Oh, yeah Wiki? Me? When it comes to football? Ha. No chance. All in me bonce as if it happened yesterday.
We'll never know how many were ticketless as they all melted into the background when the sh!t hit and it doesn't really matter how long they had waited. I agree about the ob, especially West Yorks, they screwed up the ripper investigation but it doesn't lessen the blame that should rightly be laid at the door of the fans who were trying to push their way into the stadium. That is what annoys me with this and a lot of other things in todays society, everyone wants someone, other than themselves, to blame. '71 - present day, that good enough? They were a very nasty lot, even before Hillsborough the media would gloss over any 'problems' caused by the big boys, Liverpool and Man U included. I remember being at Anfield probably late '70s early '80s, Keegan was still playing, about two hundred Palace fans were there in the seats and making a bit of noise, which was unusual(we went independently by car), I think they arrived late, we got a draw after being kicked off the pitch, the ref gave nothing (nothing changes), after the game the Kop boys came down to kick the crap out the Palace lot who were in the main scarfers The OB did Fvck all, again nothing changes.
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pstrutt  Busselton, WA 03 Apr 14 11.06am |
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I have made the mistake of thinking there might be some solidarity amongst football fan from different clubs, after all this is about football not just the club involved, but it seems we don't have solidarity amongst our own fans. I really was clutching at straws. Never mind. I hope we'll all observe the silence and let's get on with the footy!
So I manage a Workshop which provides a safe learning environment for blokes struggling with PTSD and other mental health issues. Being a Palace fan isn't listed yet. |
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