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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Nov 20 10.41am
Originally posted by HKOwen I honestly think masks were talked down early in the piece for no reason other than there was such a global shortage that no government wanted to put in place a policy that was doomed to fail due to lack of masks. No one's fault in particular, every country had similar problem early one.Cost of masks became price gouging everywhere. I’ve not seen nhs staff wearing cloth masks so that reason is just covering up the fact they said cloth masks were a waste of time. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Nov 20 10.41am

Originally posted by HKOwen

I honestly think masks were talked down early in the piece for no reason other than there was such a global shortage that no government wanted to put in place a policy that was doomed to fail due to lack of masks.

No one's fault in particular, every country had similar problem early one.Cost of masks became price gouging everywhere.

I’ve not seen nhs staff wearing cloth masks so that reason is just covering up the fact they said cloth masks were a waste of time.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 12 Nov 20 10.43am
Originally posted by mezzer "Swedish Central Banker Says The Economy Is Weaker Than Official Data Show" [Link] Did you actually read the link? This is a case of a headline deliberately stating something that is far weakly suggested by quotes and without any evidence. The Riksbank’s latest official forecast, from September, shows Sweden’s economy shrinking 3.6% this year.....what did the UK shrink by....more than double that I think. I'm open to alternative evidence but none was presented. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 10.48am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Nov 20 10.43am

Originally posted by mezzer

"Swedish Central Banker Says The Economy Is Weaker Than Official Data Show"

[Link]

Did you actually read the link?

This is a case of a headline deliberately stating something that is far weakly suggested by quotes and without any evidence.

The Riksbank’s latest official forecast, from September, shows Sweden’s economy shrinking 3.6% this year.....what did the UK shrink by....more than double that I think.

I'm open to alternative evidence but none was presented.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 10.48am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Nov 20 11.48am
Does anyone have a table of GDP changes this year by country? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Nov 20 11.48am

Does anyone have a table of GDP changes this year by country?

COYP

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BlueJay UK 12 Nov 20 12.06pm
Originally posted by DanH But you're completely ignoring the point about Swedes largely being respectful of the guidelines and doing what they have been asked to. Even with more stringent measures here people haven't been doing it. If we had followed Sweden's model the death and hospitalisation rate would be even further out of control then it already is. They've clearly played it well, but everything is obvious in hindsight, plus we aren't Sweden. Almost half of the country live in single occupancy households. Combine that with their common sense approach and it's enough to keep the virus in check. Place their exact approach over the UK and you won't get the same results unfortunately. At least they stuck to their guns though in their approach. Our government's lurching, headless chicken approach hasn't done us any favours. Edited by BlueJay (12 Nov 2020 12.08pm)
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BlueJay

UK 12 Nov 20 12.06pm

Originally posted by DanH

But you're completely ignoring the point about Swedes largely being respectful of the guidelines and doing what they have been asked to. Even with more stringent measures here people haven't been doing it. If we had followed Sweden's model the death and hospitalisation rate would be even further out of control then it already is.

They've clearly played it well, but everything is obvious in hindsight, plus we aren't Sweden. Almost half of the country live in single occupancy households. Combine that with their common sense approach and it's enough to keep the virus in check. Place their exact approach over the UK and you won't get the same results unfortunately.

At least they stuck to their guns though in their approach. Our government's lurching, headless chicken approach hasn't done us any favours.

Edited by BlueJay (12 Nov 2020 12.08pm)

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 12 Nov 20 12.20pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Do supermarkets drop social distancing rules for mask wearers? Have not heard that and check out lines still have distancing marks on floor as far as I know but may have changed recently Edited by HKOwen (12 Nov 2020 4.09am) No, they do not. They still stipulate that people on their premises have to follow the social distancing advice and guidance. Nothing in terms of social distancing has been reduced for mask wearers in supermarkets, or any other shop for that matter. Again it is just those who choose not to comply and those who let this behaviour happen who are making the whole problem worse than it would otherwise be.
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 12 Nov 20 12.20pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Do supermarkets drop social distancing rules for mask wearers? Have not heard that and check out lines still have distancing marks on floor as far as I know
but may have changed recently

Edited by HKOwen (12 Nov 2020 4.09am)

No, they do not. They still stipulate that people on their premises have to follow the social distancing advice and guidance. Nothing in terms of social distancing has been reduced for mask wearers in supermarkets, or any other shop for that matter. Again it is just those who choose not to comply and those who let this behaviour happen who are making the whole problem worse than it would otherwise be.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 12 Nov 20 12.25pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Did you actually read the link? This is a case of a headline deliberately stating something that is far weakly suggested by quotes and without any evidence. The Riksbank’s latest official forecast, from September, shows Sweden’s economy shrinking 3.6% this year.....what did the UK shrink by....more than double that I think. I'm open to alternative evidence but none was presented. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 10.48am) I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well: "Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs" [Link] Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time [Link] I'm not interested in an "I'm right, you're wrong" debate because quite frankly no one knows for sure what the best way to have played the virus would have been until after it's gone away. If I could invest 100% in the Hindsight Fund I would. I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 12 Nov 20 12.25pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Did you actually read the link?

This is a case of a headline deliberately stating something that is far weakly suggested by quotes and without any evidence.

The Riksbank’s latest official forecast, from September, shows Sweden’s economy shrinking 3.6% this year.....what did the UK shrink by....more than double that I think.

I'm open to alternative evidence but none was presented.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 10.48am)

I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well:

"Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs"
[Link]

Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time

[Link]

I'm not interested in an "I'm right, you're wrong" debate because quite frankly no one knows for sure what the best way to have played the virus would have been until after it's gone away. If I could invest 100% in the Hindsight Fund I would.

I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Nov 20 1.00pm
Originally posted by mezzer I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well: "Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs" [Link] Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time [Link] I'm not interested in an "I'm right, you're wrong" debate because quite frankly no one knows for sure what the best way to have played the virus would have been until after it's gone away. If I could invest 100% in the Hindsight Fund I would. I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right. This is why we need to look at GDP per country. Australia and New Zealand will claim they’ve got it right but 1) this obviously isn’t over yet and a vaccine will take purchasing some and time vaccinating everyone by literal force I presume. 2) Australia and New Zealand are a terminus of travel whereas all of Europe is a crossroads and can explain why all of the EU countries haven’t dealt with it in the way lockdown and restriction zealots will have wished for. Plus Australia and NZ are obviously huge and it’s got to be much easier to distance if you want to or are made to. And smaller populations so not as many people to object. The one thing I agree with is that we should’ve closed off incoming passengers apart from repatriation. But we mustn’t have that because of freedom to travel but of course we must impose whatever we hear other countries did and indeed China did on our own population instead. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Nov 2020 1.09pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Nov 20 1.00pm

Originally posted by mezzer

I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well:

"Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs"
[Link]

Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time

[Link]

I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right.

This is why we need to look at GDP per country. Australia and New Zealand will claim they’ve got it right but

1) this obviously isn’t over yet and a vaccine will take purchasing some and time vaccinating everyone by literal force I presume.

2) Australia and New Zealand are a terminus of travel whereas all of Europe is a crossroads and can explain why all of the EU countries haven’t dealt with it in the way lockdown and restriction zealots will have wished for. Plus Australia and NZ are obviously huge and it’s got to be much easier to distance if you want to or are made to. And smaller populations so not as many people to object.

The one thing I agree with is that we should’ve closed off incoming passengers apart from repatriation. But we mustn’t have that because of freedom to travel but of course we must impose whatever we hear other countries did and indeed China did on our own population instead.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Nov 2020 1.09pm)

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Nov 20 1.07pm
Originally posted by mezzer I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well: "Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs" [Link] Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time [Link] I'm not interested in an "I'm right, you're wrong" debate because quite frankly no one knows for sure what the best way to have played the virus would have been until after it's gone away. If I could invest 100% in the Hindsight Fund I would. I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right. I think this slight change in direction in Sweden coincides with them lifting shielding guidelines for elderly/vulnerable. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve done this because 1) Tourism is going to drop because of 2) Short daylight and long cold winter nights drawing in so it’s a better time economically and socially to do this when it fits in with less desire to get out a lot anyway. I still expect you won’t see a mask in sight and nobody needing to zig zag walk along pavements and road sides to avoid someone else’s 2 metre radius air space. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Nov 2020 1.10pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Nov 20 1.07pm

Originally posted by mezzer

I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well:

"Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs"
[Link]

Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time

[Link]

I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right.

I think this slight change in direction in Sweden coincides with them lifting shielding guidelines for elderly/vulnerable. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve done this because

1) Tourism is going to drop because of

2) Short daylight and long cold winter nights drawing in

so it’s a better time economically and socially to do this when it fits in with less desire to get out a lot anyway. I still expect you won’t see a mask in sight and nobody needing to zig zag walk along pavements and road sides to avoid someone else’s 2 metre radius air space.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Nov 2020 1.10pm)

COYP

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Stirlingsays 12 Nov 20 2.38pm
Originally posted by mezzer I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well: "Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs" [Link] Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time [Link] I'm not interested in an "I'm right, you're wrong" debate because quite frankly no one knows for sure what the best way to have played the virus would have been until after it's gone away. If I could invest 100% in the Hindsight Fund I would. I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right. Both of those links do what your first one did and try to suggest that Sweden has changed its policies whereas it's still largely the same......Something tells me that Bloomberg has a position on this....Mmmmm...I wonder why...I mean I wonder who the owner supports. As for, 'I'm right, you're wrong' well that can be your take on my approach perhaps. However, the reality is that the official position adopted is very much along those lines when it comes to how society enforces and restricts your life and your employment prospects. People get rugby tackled in the street (selectively of course)....so forgive me if I don't think 'I'm right, you're wrong' carries some import here. Sweden clearly had the best approach....I and others have been saying that from the beginning...Lockdowns are largely political posturing and I believe that will eventually be the conclusion once the hysteria goes....it isn't hindsight for us that's for certain. However I respect your difference of opinion on this and the position of many on the 'right' certainly splits into different camps and apologies if I appear somewhat robust. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 2.43pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Nov 20 2.38pm

Originally posted by mezzer

I did, Stirling. That's why I post things. I've also read these from the Bloomberg site as well:

"Sweden Fights ‘Very Serious’ Covid Resurgence With New Curbs"
[Link]

Sweden Imposes Partial Lockdown of Bars for First Time

[Link]

I think it is only fair to accept that there is not one Government in the world that has got it totally right.

Both of those links do what your first one did and try to suggest that Sweden has changed its policies whereas it's still largely the same......Something tells me that Bloomberg has a position on this....Mmmmm...I wonder why...I mean I wonder who the owner supports.

As for, 'I'm right, you're wrong' well that can be your take on my approach perhaps. However, the reality is that the official position adopted is very much along those lines when it comes to how society enforces and restricts your life and your employment prospects.

People get rugby tackled in the street (selectively of course)....so forgive me if I don't think 'I'm right, you're wrong' carries some import here.

Sweden clearly had the best approach....I and others have been saying that from the beginning...Lockdowns are largely political posturing and I believe that will eventually be the conclusion once the hysteria goes....it isn't hindsight for us that's for certain.

However I respect your difference of opinion on this and the position of many on the 'right' certainly splits into different camps and apologies if I appear somewhat robust.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Nov 2020 2.43pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 12 Nov 20 3.21pm
Sweden clearly had the best approach. [Link]
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DanH

SW2 12 Nov 20 3.21pm

Sweden clearly had the best approach.

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 12 Nov 20 5.15pm
Originally posted by DanH Sweden clearly had the best approach. [Link] If a lefty journalist writes something Dan thinks it's like the ten commandments. Well, you know, the fake commie version. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Nov 20 5.15pm

Originally posted by DanH

Sweden clearly had the best approach.

[Link]

If a lefty journalist writes something Dan thinks it's like the ten commandments.

Well, you know, the fake commie version.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Teddy Eagle 12 Nov 20 5.45pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If a lefty journalist writes something Dan thinks it's like the ten commandments. Well, you know, the fake commie version. Those are the ones that go Other people shalt not....
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Teddy Eagle

12 Nov 20 5.45pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If a lefty journalist writes something Dan thinks it's like the ten commandments.

Well, you know, the fake commie version.

Those are the ones that go Other people shalt not....

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