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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Jul 17 8.54am | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
One does and the other one doesn't. Your glorious leader wants us out of the single market. Despite his public fence sitting, he know the truth about the future if we stay locked in.
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Mstrobez 04 Jul 17 9.06am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Well, at least that bit's true. "Crucially, there is far more latitude for member states to apply restrictions to freedom of movement than is commonly appreciated. The Belgian authorities aggressively deport EU citizens who do not work and cannot support themselves. Under EU law, the UK authorities could do the same for EU citizens who have failed to find work after six months. Access to Spanish healthcare requires registering with the social security authorities and showing residence and identity documents. The German authorities, in an attempt to protect domestic pay deals, are tightening up access to the construction and other sectors by EU workers." "Several EU leaders have told me of their irritation that UK politicians blame them for a decision taken in Westminster, not Brussels: opening up the UK labour market in 2004 to workers from central and eastern Europe. They point out that the UK’s non-contributory welfare benefits, unqualified access to healthcare and absence of administrative residence checks, mean that the UK takes a far more lax approach than they do." But shhh no facts!!! Brexit means Brexit!!! Sovereignty!!!!! Getting our country back!!!!
We're the Arthur over ere! |
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Mstrobez 04 Jul 17 9.09am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Well, at least that bit's true. Great reason to vote Leave btw, you really are sticking it to those pesky bureaucrats.
We're the Arthur over ere! |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Jul 17 9.46am | |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
"Crucially, there is far more latitude for member states to apply restrictions to freedom of movement than is commonly appreciated. The Belgian authorities aggressively deport EU citizens who do not work and cannot support themselves. Under EU law, the UK authorities could do the same for EU citizens who have failed to find work after six months. Access to Spanish healthcare requires registering with the social security authorities and showing residence and identity documents. The German authorities, in an attempt to protect domestic pay deals, are tightening up access to the construction and other sectors by EU workers." "Several EU leaders have told me of their irritation that UK politicians blame them for a decision taken in Westminster, not Brussels: opening up the UK labour market in 2004 to workers from central and eastern Europe. They point out that the UK’s non-contributory welfare benefits, unqualified access to healthcare and absence of administrative residence checks, mean that the UK takes a far more lax approach than they do." But shhh no facts!!! Brexit means Brexit!!! Sovereignty!!!!! Getting our country back!!!! The fact remains, that apart from a few exceptions, freedom of movement means that we have to accept the entire population of the EU coming here if they choose to. Yes, getting back sovereignty is worth any short-term problems.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Mstrobez 04 Jul 17 10.18am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The fact remains, that apart from a few exceptions, freedom of movement means that we have to accept the entire population of the EU coming here if they choose to. Yes, getting back sovereignty is worth any short-term problems. But it clearly doesn't as stated above, the fact is we could be a lot harder on regulation of EU immigration but decide not to(I wonder why), the actual regulation is still entitled "freedom of workers movement". Read a piece before that the largest % of immigration into the UK is actually from the Asian (Indian and pakistani) community as part of their right to "family reunion". That's a UN treaty though so I suppose you want us to get out of that as well? The irony of those who want to completely get rid of the "soft/Norway" type debate is that we'd actually be in a position where we could still trade freely in the single market but claim partial exemption from the 4 "freedoms", that is an EFA treaty. Attempting to remove these as options at the very least and then claiming to be a virtuous democrat who did this for "control" is absolutely hilarious. The more you look into this stuff the more you realise how meaningless "brexit means brexit" actually is, perhaps the very reason so many want to silence anyone representing some form of rationality, or options, or alternative plan from the complete s*** show we've got currently. Edited by Mstrobez (04 Jul 2017 10.20am)
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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Jul 17 12.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
But it clearly doesn't as stated above, the fact is we could be a lot harder on regulation of EU immigration but decide not to(I wonder why), the actual regulation is still entitled "freedom of workers movement". Read a piece before that the largest % of immigration into the UK is actually from the Asian (Indian and pakistani) community as part of their right to "family reunion". That's a UN treaty though so I suppose you want us to get out of that as well? The irony of those who want to completely get rid of the "soft/Norway" type debate is that we'd actually be in a position where we could still trade freely in the single market but claim partial exemption from the 4 "freedoms", that is an EFA treaty. Attempting to remove these as options at the very least and then claiming to be a virtuous democrat who did this for "control" is absolutely hilarious. The more you look into this stuff the more you realise how meaningless "brexit means brexit" actually is, perhaps the very reason so many want to silence anyone representing some form of rationality, or options, or alternative plan from the complete s*** show we've got currently. Edited by Mstrobez (04 Jul 2017 10.20am) It is just the usual Remain blurring of the facts. A very small number of EU immigrations can be refused entry or be expelled, but the vast majority of the entire 743 million people in the EU can come here if the want and as an EU member we have to accept them. Yes, we should get out of UN (another failing organisation) rules and regulations that damage us too.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Jul 17 1.00pm | |
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Juncker calls the EU Parliament "ridiculous, totally ridiculous". Have to agree with him for once.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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steeleye20 Croydon 04 Jul 17 2.50pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Juncker calls the EU Parliament "ridiculous, totally ridiculous". Have to agree with him for once. I don't think we should be surprised the EU has power struggles like any large organisation. The commission will have different pressures to achieve a result with the UK and its bad that the EU parliament does not appear to be involved and may be side-lined. They have the final word for the EU after all.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Jul 17 5.43pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I don't think we should be surprised the EU has power struggles like any large organisation. The commission will have different pressures to achieve a result with the UK and its bad that the EU parliament does not appear to be involved and may be side-lined. They have the final word for the EU after all. Just another reason that we are well rid.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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matt_himself Matataland 04 Jul 17 10.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Your prolonged naivety and forgetfulness is amazing. Of course for some areas we do. The EU anti-pollution laws have worked very well, for example. Our country was filthy a few decades back. Some Food standard regs too which could go out of the window when we sign a free-trade deal with the U.S. They use some very dodgy processes that are banned over here at the moment but highly likely won't be after the deal is signed. There are plenty of other areas the EU has helped us with due to our...yes...inability to self-manage properly. Those at the top just don't have the will you see. It needs to be forced upon them legally. If you had travelled more you would see how other countries manage some things better than us. The EU was lobbied into relaxing pollution laws regarding diesel cars by car manufacturers. When catalytic converters were introduced, they didn't work well for diesel powered cars but new technology allowed turbo diesel cars to be produced. The only problem is that diesel is far dirtier than petrol. The result of the relaxed laws on diesel was that diesel car usage rocketed and cities became far more polluted. This in turn was also an underlying cause of the diesel emissions scandal a few years. The EU promoting itself as the bellwether of environmentalism is another lie perpetrated by its partisan supporters. The EU has, through allowing the proliferation of diesel cars to be used in its cities contributed to countless suffering health problems. Bring on 2019 when we can make up our own minds as to what constitutes environmental policy in our country and not a diktat from Brussels, which was lobbied from Wolfsburg.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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legaleagle 04 Jul 17 10.34pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Yes, we should get out of UN (another failing organisation) rules and regulations that damage us too. Yup,let's unilaterally elect to disregard international law and all our international treaty obligations too while we're at it... The (increasingly irrelevant) joke of the "civilised" world but at least less people of a different ethnicity in our midst,..(to be replaced by a million plus,many elderly needng NHS treatment,former expat Brits),eh? Lovely jubbly.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 04 Jul 17 10.44pm | |
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Part of the problem was scumbag Mandelson an oily career politician. Seen him personally, he really is all that's bad with the world.
Pro USA & Israel |
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