I think that article from the BBC boosted what you are saying Dave. It also shows that the EU can be removed from the driving seat from demanding certain things, to then being open to change when the UK proposed nothing. - Regarding the ECJ jurisdiction.

"Indeed. Insisting "Brexit can never be a success"",
It will not be a success. We are already poorer as a result of the vote and this will continue to be the case for the next generation at least

"threatening punishment beatings of €40-100bn"

We will be paying don't worry about that

"rebuffing TWICE the offer to take citizens out of the equation entirely "

This is just plain nonsense - the UK position on EU nationals was published only on Monday and amounted to some scrawling on the back of a fag packet. Compared to the EU's comprehensive offer published over a month ago. This is just typical of Brexiteers who all seem to think the process is easy and can be sorted out over a pint down the pub.

"leaking meetings to the press to undermine the authority of and question the competency of the other side."

This is a fair point and looks to be a major miscalculation on the part of a member of the EU delegation to no.10

With regard to your Tribalism point. It is the Tories that have made this tribal by insisting only they can negotiate Brexit. If there was a cross party approach to the negotiations - which in light of no party getting a majority at the last election it should be - then your point could stand.

Edited by Islington Eagle (28 Jun 2017 3.28pm)

Palace Fan

That section actually says "The young and highly educated are more likely than ever to believe that immigration is good for the economy, while older people and non-graduates are more likely to say immigration is bad for the economy."
No mention of 'right wing' or 'racist' or having no idea what they were voting for - is it normal in Islington to simply distort statements and make things up? You will also find that the votes of older, less educated people count as equal to those of young brain-washed products of the educational efforts of the liberal-left establishment of the last few decades.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Nothing wrong with that, people with a great interest in politics will vote for partisan reasons anyway. Also, fairly clear who is the bigot in this discussion.

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Jun 2017 8.07pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

As The Wall Street Journal reports, investors were rattled on Tuesday when ECB President Mario Draghi talked of a “strengthening and broadening recovery” in the eurozone’s economy.
Analysts are now weighing whether these moves will turn into a full-scale “taper tantrum” or whether investors’ continued hunger for fixed-income assets will temper any wider selloff.

"Yesterday was the first explicit sign that the ECB will be looking to remove some of the stimulus,” said Mike Bell, global market strategist at J.P. Morgan Asset Management. “Clearly not everybody was expecting that.”
"I don’t think his speech was a big surprise, but you saw the market reaction,” said Joachim Fels, global economic adviser at Pacific Investment Management Co., who attended the forum. “It’s a warning sign that there are some unintended consequences as central banks head toward the exit.”

1. The ''stimulus'' being debt printed (from thin-air) to prop up a market that is unable to stand on it's own two feet.
2. The 'bumpy ride' (that some of us have predicted) gets closer by the day.

Buy Litecoin.

But you did do that didn't you . I'd argue it's fairly hard to assertain the meaning of any vote and to bring a decision as big as this down to a yes or no vote was one of the most idiotic things any prime minister has ever done. Farage mentioned Switzerland and Norway on many occasions, that indicates at the very least that the terms of our exit can be argued and to suggest everyone wanted to just completely f*** the EU off is speculative at best.

We're the Arthur over ere!