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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Username  Horsham 28 Jun 17 1.38pm |
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Originally posted by Hansy
It's about coming to an agreement. A reasonable deal for both sides. Sometimes you have to be difficult to get a good deal. A side might think X is a good deal, but the other side might think this benefits the otherside more. The Tories haven't acted like that in negotiations. The only thing we have seen is TM's proposal, we haven't seen anything Davis has been proposing etc. So how do you know they are demanding? I don't disagree, but I just don't think you start off that way. You go into it wanting to work together, but knowing that later you might have to get tougher. I don't think you talk about being bloody difficult or having your senior ministers talking about having our cake and eating it etc.
Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time. |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 1.49pm |
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Originally posted by Username
I don't disagree, but I just don't think you start off that way. You go into it wanting to work together, but knowing that later you might have to get tougher. I don't think you talk about being bloody difficult or having your senior ministers talking about having our cake and eating it etc. Quite right. They've made a hash of it from day 1.
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| Hansy 28 Jun 17 1.53pm |
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Where have they been difficult though? Because May's Rights proposals were different to the EU? Or because of the time it has taken for each side to sit down? Proposals from each side are going to be different, that is why it is called a proposal. It's taken it's time due to the Tories wanting a larger mandate so they don't have to appease those on the right (Which they failed to do). EU also gave them a date to start. It's also the first time this has ever happened, it's a new process for both Britain and the EU. A crap example, but still works. If you are buying a house or car, you are not going to tell the agent you will pay the full price to then say I will pay 20% less. You are not going to give them an idea of your offer until you talk about the product/s. Edited by Hansy (28 Jun 2017 2.00pm)
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 1.59pm |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Where have they been difficult though? Because May's Rights proposals were different to the EU? Or because of the time it has taken for each side to sit down? Proposals from each side are going to be different, that is why it is called a proposal. It's taken it's time due to the Tories wanting a larger mandate so they don't have to appease those on the right (Which they failed to do). EU also gave them a date to start. A crap example, but still works. If you are buying a house or car, you are not going to tell the agent you will pay the full price to then say I will pay 20% less. You are not going to give them an idea of your offer until you talk about the product/s. Edited by Hansy (28 Jun 2017 1.54pm) Remind me of the rule that says proposals have to differ...
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| Hansy 28 Jun 17 2.01pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Remind me of the rule that says proposals have to differ... So all proposals are going to be the same? Stop trying to play on my words, some proposals might be the same, some will differ. Not all are going to be the same though. That is why they are called a proposal. Note - I didn't say ALL proposals will be different. Edited by Hansy (28 Jun 2017 2.06pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 28 Jun 17 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Where have they been difficult though? Because May's Rights proposals were different to the EU? Or because of the time it has taken for each side to sit down? Proposals from each side are going to be different, that is why it is called a proposal. It's taken it's time due to the Tories wanting a larger mandate so they don't have to appease those on the right (Which they failed to do). EU also gave them a date to start. A crap example, but still works. If you are buying a house or car, you are not going to tell the agent you will pay the full price to then say I will pay 20% less. You are not going to give them an idea of your offer until you talk about the product/s. Edited by Hansy (28 Jun 2017 1.54pm) Made me laugh recently on QT. Outspoken woman who speaks her mi d in the audience said to Gina Miller that she wouldn't let everyone know her intentions before going into negotiate a business deal. Miller said she'd do a cost benefit analysis. Woman in audience said something like ''Well you wouldn't broadcast it or have the other side know about it.'' Miller was probably secretly glad of the noise so she didn't have to give a reply she didn't have. Noise from both sides of the audience, started by the remainers. We're stuck between citizens wanting to know how negotiations are going to affect them and needing to not show your hand before negotiations. That argument could go on for as long as before the deal has been made.
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| Hansy 28 Jun 17 2.05pm |
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I truly believe some parts of the negotiations will be made public, both positive and negative discussions. The EU will try and put a negative view on it no matter what. They won't want any other country going through the same process.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Hansy
So all proposals are going to be the same? Stop trying to play on my words, some proposals might be the same, some will differ. Not all are going to be the same though. That is why they are called a proposal. Note - I didn't say ALL proposals will be different. Edited by Hansy (28 Jun 2017 2.06pm) You said they would be different, which is why they were called proposals, implying all proposals differ. I just thought that it was possible some proposals could be the same.
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| Hansy 28 Jun 17 2.11pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
You said they would be different, which is why they were called proposals, implying all proposals differ. I just thought that it was possible some proposals could be the same. Read my reply to you, I never said ALL proposals. I said proposals.
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| Islington Eagle North of the River 28 Jun 17 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
NatCen survey shows that Britain is more Eurosceptic than ever: In the aftermath of the Referendum the public has become more sceptical about the EU than ever before. Three in four (75%) feel that Britain should either leave the EU or that if it stays the EU’s powers should be reduced - up from 65% in 2015. Only one in five favoured the status quo or EU expansion. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Jun 2017 12.58pm) Thanks for posting this. Very interesting read.
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| Hansy 28 Jun 17 2.21pm |
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And this is the art of negotiations. The EU wanting ECJ jurisdiction for EU rights in the UK. Whilst UK rights in the EU would also fall under the ECJ. An independent body will be formed instead to keep this fair. Michel Barnier - 'the rights in the withdrawal agreement will need to be directly enforceable and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice maintained".'
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| davenotamonkey 28 Jun 17 3.10pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Quite right. They've made a hash of it from day 1. Indeed. Insisting "Brexit can never be a success", threatening punishment beatings of €40-100bn, rebuffing TWICE the offer to take citizens out of the equation entirely, leaking meetings to the press to undermine the authority of and question the competency of the other side. A fantastic demonstration of why it is essential we leave. An equally fantastic demonstration of the utter one-sidedness of those that would prefer to see our country screwed in these negotiations just to point and laugh at the Tories. Pathetic tribalists. I hope people see through the press dressing this up as UK incompetence and ineptitude. Better what we have now than "concede early, concede often" Labour wrecking the whole process. So, I'll put up with you lot whining on here, denigrating UK efforts and generally acting as 5th columnists safe in the knowledge that, thankfully, the levers of power are out of your hands, and it's all you've got.
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