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JohnyBoy 04 May 16 11.24am | |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
I'm sorry, but so much of this is just fundamentally wrong. I could pick holes in this all night, particularly the stuff about being "able to trade with the world" (disingenuously neglecting to mention it must be under EU-stipulated regulatory red-tape that reduces competitiveness), without mentioning that (eg) the Swiss get on perfectly well also trading with China, with full advantage of the Free Trade Agreement they signed with it. Anyway, my main point of contention was "Member states still decide their own laws (criminal, corporate etc) taxes, and its budget" This is just wrong. Legal supremacy lies outside of the member states. That is a fact. VAT is an EU tax, and the limits are set by the EU. You don't get to choose them outside of these limits. Eurozone member state budgets must be submitted for approval to the Commission. If this budget does not meet with their approval, then you are put on special measures, fined and sanctioned. This budget might well have passed through your own parliament, but it matters not one iota. Oh, but this'll never happen to us, right? There's never any competence creep (or "EU boiling frog". Sorry, but I stopped reading after the above statement. I'm sure the rest was completely accurate. Frankly it is you who are wrong. Where you are correct is that eu law has supremacy where there is cross border legal differences or a conflict in domestic laws. This is seized upon by the leave campaign that we have given over our laws to Brussels.....which is frankly far fetched, desperate, exaggerated bull#$it. The truth is 99%of the laws that we deal with day in day out - criminal, contract, conveyancing etc are unaffected by eu law .....and businesess that i have been involved in have traded quite happily with thd us, asia and japan with no need to recourse for eu permission, so thiz agsin is just the usual old scaremongering bolash from the out campaign
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Hoof Hearted 04 May 16 12.16pm | |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
Frankly it is you who are wrong. Where you are correct is that eu law has supremacy where there is cross border legal differences or a conflict in domestic laws. This is seized upon by the leave campaign that we have given over our laws to Brussels.....which is frankly far fetched, desperate, exaggerated bull#$it. The truth is 99%of the laws that we deal with day in day out - criminal, contract, conveyancing etc are unaffected by eu law .....and businesess that i have been involved in have traded quite happily with thd us, asia and japan with no need to recourse for eu permission, so thiz agsin is just the usual old scaremongering bolash from the out campaign You should be more worried about Sharia Law Johnny..... Give it a few more years of rampant immigration from an increased EU membership including Turkey and then a birth rate for Muslims of 3 times that of the indigenous population.... Sharia Law will be imposed in the UK and EU by the majority. But I guess you'll still be crowing about the booming economy but not enjoying that glass of wine you were speaking about eh?
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JohnyBoy 04 May 16 12.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
You should be more worried about Sharia Law Johnny..... Give it a few more years of rampant immigration from an increased EU membership including Turkey and then a birth rate for Muslims of 3 times that of the indigenous population.... Sharia Law will be imposed in the UK and EU by the majority. But I guess you'll still be crowing about the booming economy but not enjoying that glass of wine you were speaking about eh?
Ooh a lovely glass of sharia sorry shiraz!!
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 May 16 1.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
You should be more worried about Sharia Law Johnny..... Give it a few more years of rampant immigration from an increased EU membership including Turkey and then a birth rate for Muslims of 3 times that of the indigenous population.... Sharia Law will be imposed in the UK and EU by the majority. But I guess you'll still be crowing about the booming economy but not enjoying that glass of wine you were speaking about eh?
From 4% of the UK population, I doubt it would be 'a few years' somehow, even if assume that all Muslims a) want sharia law b) have the same view of what Sharia Law is and isn't. That's some good old fashioned Labour Anti-Semitism racism there...
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stuk Top half 04 May 16 2.37pm | |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
Thank you STUK, i didnt know the up to date costs but my point is that the vast majority of these costs are in wages to British taxpayers which therefore means the treasury and our public services are the main beneficiaries The entire payout of these costs is from tax, so even if the majority goes to tax paying staff in wages it is not a benefit to the treasury. The people employed benefit from teaching 222 kids from overseas but the treasury does not.
Optimistic as ever |
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JohnyBoy 04 May 16 6.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
The entire payout of these costs is from tax, so even if the majority goes to tax paying staff in wages it is not a benefit to the treasury. The people employed benefit from teaching 222 kids from overseas but the treasury does not. Excuse me if i am telling you how to suck eggs here STUK but its what is known economically as the multiplier effect. Put very simply it says that if the government pays say 10 peoples wages then this becomes the wages of others as the money is spent on rent, shopping, clothes, DIY etc etc. The level of the multiplier depends on a households propensity the consume (i.e spend) or save. If the household spends 80% of their income and saves 20% then the multiplier become 1÷0.2 =5. So in the example, still say 500k is spent on the school with immigrant kids and say 80% (reality its much higher) is paid out in wages then the effect from the government spending 400k to british taxpayers is 400×5= 2million quid of economic activity. School spending is thought to be a very efficient use of government spending (unlike say prisons or old age healthcare) because we have the added benefit of training the next generation of taxpayers and their parents typically have higher consumption spending because kids are expensive. In politics, parties differ as to the optimum level of government spending. Labour in the 70s spent too much and the tories in the 80s spent to little, thankfully both are now rejected by the mainstream of both parties although are worryingly still viewed by many as the great days of labour or the tories depending which ignorent tribal allegiance they have....there economics 101,
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Stuk Top half 04 May 16 7.46pm | |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
Excuse me if i am telling you how to suck eggs here STUK but its what is known economically as the multiplier effect. Put very simply it says that if the government pays say 10 peoples wages then this becomes the wages of others as the money is spent on rent, shopping, clothes, DIY etc etc. The level of the multiplier depends on a households propensity the consume (i.e spend) or save. If the household spends 80% of their income and saves 20% then the multiplier become 1÷0.2 =5. So in the example, still say 500k is spent on the school with immigrant kids and say 80% (reality its much higher) is paid out in wages then the effect from the government spending 400k to british taxpayers is 400×5= 2million quid of economic activity. School spending is thought to be a very efficient use of government spending (unlike say prisons or old age healthcare) because we have the added benefit of training the next generation of taxpayers and their parents typically have higher consumption spending because kids are expensive. In politics, parties differ as to the optimum level of government spending. Labour in the 70s spent too much and the tories in the 80s spent to little, thankfully both are now rejected by the mainstream of both parties although are worryingly still viewed by many as the great days of labour or the tories depending which ignorent tribal allegiance they have....there economics 101, More applicable to large infrastructure projects than running costs of something. Also assumes they spend that much and it not leaving the country, or being spent online with the likes of Amazon or any tax haven based gambling sites etc.
Optimistic as ever |
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JohnyBoy 04 May 16 8.01pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
More applicable to large infrastructure projects than running costs of something. Also assumes they spend that much and it not leaving the country, or being spent online with the likes of Amazon or any tax haven based gambling sites etc. You are right STUK, many assumptions and many variables and theories, but you get my gist....much richer if we have the right amount of gov spending and investment for the future....but i acknowledge that we may disagree...cos true brits gamble on those dodgey gambling websites too!! ..you have heard that uk based punters are subject to point if consumption tax tho? If only that were true for every sh@t fascist newspaper we buy?
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 05 May 16 11.51am | |
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Already posted in another thread. Leaked papers show that the EU negotiated TTIP deal includes a clause where US pharmaceutical multinationals can sue EU member states for lack of profit. Would quite like that not to happen to be honest, would imagine that would resonate with a lot of lefties. Probably not though. They'll vote Remain and sing "imagine there's no countries" in starry eyed, fluffy clouded wonder.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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DanH SW2 05 May 16 11.56am | |
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Originally posted by We are goin up!
Already posted in another thread. Leaked papers show that the EU negotiated TTIP deal includes a clause where US pharmaceutical multinationals can sue EU member states for lack of profit. Would quite like that not to happen to be honest, would imagine that would resonate with a lot of lefties. Probably not though. They'll vote Remain and sing "imagine there's no countries" in starry eyed, fluffy clouded wonder.
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 05 May 16 1.15pm | |
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Originally posted by DanH
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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DanH SW2 05 May 16 1.31pm | |
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Originally posted by We are goin up!
In the pub until 6pm, unfortunately.
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