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steeleye20 Croydon 01 Nov 20 6.12pm | |
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Cynics among us will recognise a situation where the government miraculously engineers a lock-down exit in time for Christmas. They reason, correctly, that the public are dumb enough to believe anything. Like believing this lockdown was necessary in the first place. Viruses are always present and they can floor you for months if not years. If you are elderly or weakened by a health condition then this nasty little germ is very dangerous, but not otherwise. A total over-reaction mirroring the hysteria of modern Britain.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Nov 20 6.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Oh dear... I have not suggested any course of action (though I do believe that the economic damage should be taken into account) and we are in agreement that there are no good choices. If you get 5 minutes to reflect - please review your previous comments and you will see that they did not display any empathy towards the loss of jobs/livelihoods/ homes etc it was just “economies recover dead people don’t “. But you have now clarified your position on this point - so thank you for that. There really is nothing to be gained through further comment (from either of us) on this point as we are now in agreement, so best wishes to you. My "economies recover, dead people don't" isn't meant to be anything other than an attention-grabbing headline. This debate has existed for months and when the subject of how to provide financial support was the focus I was always in favour of making sure people did not feel under pressure because we are all in this together. Even the anti-lockdown renegades who seem determined to make things harder.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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BlueJay UK 01 Nov 20 6.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
How can this make sense? You state that excess deaths are high according to the average. And other deaths from illnesses are lower because people are being really careful. So, if people are being really careful and not getting ill, how come C-19 is supposedly increasing. You can't have it both ways. Not all illnesses and disease are identical. Covid-19 is very contagious... as pandemics tend to be... so it may well be both harder to avoid and also easier to be impacted by (death rate) than most other respiratory illnesses for instance. And beyond that, people are clearly dying of covid in large numbers. Earlier, I highlighted why the 'flu and pneumonia are being bunged in as covid enmasse' theory was inaccurate and precisely how those numbers were both false and misleading. This is along the same lines in that it's part of an endless effort from various angles to both underplay and undercount the tens of thousands people that have died of this horrible virus. Edited by BlueJay (01 Nov 2020 6.33pm)
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Eden Eagle Kent 01 Nov 20 6.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My "economies recover, dead people don't" isn't meant to be anything other than an attention-grabbing headline. This debate has existed for months and when the subject of how to provide financial support was the focus I was always in favour of making sure people did not feel under pressure because we are all in this together. Even the anti-lockdown renegades who seem determined to make things harder. We are in agreement - best wishes..
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 01 Nov 20 7.09pm | |
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There is a big difference in the way countries gather their data, and how they manipulate that into statistics. Clearly the track-and-trace stystem in the UK needs to be made fit for purpose, as it clearly seems to be having minimal effect. Chris Whitty needs an enema, cos he is so full of 5hlt. The "We just have to make up measures as we go along" line was so disheartening from a Professor. Any measures previously introduced have been done too late, resulting in loads of deaths. Now the rate of infections is increasing and deaths are only at a plateau at the moment because all the really old and sick people are dead already. At least wetherspoons are selling Real Ale up until lockdown for only 99p a pint. It's nice to know someone is learning how to cope better with the disease.
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 01 Nov 20 7.10pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Cynics among us will recognise a situation where the government miraculously engineers a lock-down exit in time for Christmas. They reason, correctly, that the public are dumb enough to believe anything. Like believing this lockdown was necessary in the first place. Viruses are always present and they can floor you for months if not years. If you are elderly or weakened by a health condition then this nasty little germ is very dangerous, but not otherwise. A total over-reaction mirroring the hysteria of modern Britain.
I seldom agree with your politics Steeleye, but I tip my hat to this post. Well stated.
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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Mapletree Croydon 01 Nov 20 7.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
How can this make sense? You state that excess deaths are high according to the average. And other deaths from illnesses are lower because people are being really careful. So, if people are being really careful and not getting ill, how come C-19 is supposedly increasing. You can't have it both ways. Also quoting average excess deaths is pointless as it is measured over 5 years for a reason, specifically the high one year, low the next phenomenon which is largely unbroken year on year. So 6.8% is meaningless anyway. First, this is all published information from reliable sources. So I don't have to explain anything, these are facts. If you want my guess though as to why: 1) not everyone is being careful; 2) the SARS COV2 virus is spectacularly good at spreading and 3) there is so much misinformation being bandied about that many people don't know what to think or do. There are plenty of facts to support all three points.
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Mapletree Croydon 01 Nov 20 7.17pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Cynics among us will recognise a situation where the government miraculously engineers a lock-down exit in time for Christmas. They reason, correctly, that the public are dumb enough to believe anything. Like believing this lockdown was necessary in the first place. Viruses are always present and they can floor you for months if not years. If you are elderly or weakened by a health condition then this nasty little germ is very dangerous, but not otherwise. A total over-reaction mirroring the hysteria of modern Britain.
Presumably you don't know anyone that has Long Covid. 5% of the population is over 3 million. In addition, had this been left to run there would have been many, many deaths. And as a result more people would have been hit by a high virus load, even the fittest generally don't cope well with that. Why do people on here think that the NHS and PHE, plus the WHO and every medical function in the world agree lock-downs are needed? Ah, because they are not nearly as clever as you. Do you also refuse to accept that climate change is man-made? Is the Earth really round? Do bears really sh*t on Popes and are the woods Catholic?
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 01 Nov 20 7.21pm | |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Not all illnesses and disease are identical. Covid-19 is very contagious... as pandemics tend to be... so it may well be both harder to avoid and also easier to be impacted by (death rate) than most other respiratory illnesses for instance. And beyond that, people are clearly dying of covid in large numbers. Earlier, I highlighted why the 'flu and pneumonia are being bunged in as covid enmasse' theory was inaccurate and precisely how those numbers were both false and misleading. This is along the same lines in that it's part of an endless effort from various angles to both underplay and undercount the tens of thousands people that have died of this horrible virus. Edited by BlueJay (01 Nov 2020 6.33pm) Wow. Is that a fact? Who would have though that? The reason I have stopped replying to you by the way, is because you constantly divert from the post. Address what I posted, not what you feel you want to say. How can illnesses be falling because of being more careful, at the same time as one illness, namely C-19 is rising. It's either both or neither, however you want to twist it.
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 01 Nov 20 7.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
First, this is all published information from reliable sources. So I don't have to explain anything, these are facts. If you want my guess though as to why: 1) not everyone is being careful; 2) the SARS COV2 virus is spectacularly good at spreading and 3) there is so much misinformation being bandied about that many people don't know what to think or do. There are plenty of facts to support all three points. How can numbers of deaths be up in one sentence, but down three sentences later? Maybe the "reliable sources" are not so reliable. The three points might be valid, if the point you make about why other illnesses are down was untrue. You cannot have both.
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 01 Nov 20 7.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Presumably you don't know anyone that has Long Covid. 5% of the population is over 3 million. In addition, had this been left to run there would have been many, many deaths. And as a result more people would have been hit by a high virus load, even the fittest generally don't cope well with that. Why do people on here think that the NHS and PHE, plus the WHO and every medical function in the world agree lock-downs are needed? Ah, because they are not nearly as clever as you. Do you also refuse to accept that climate change is man-made? Is the Earth really round? Do bears really sh*t on Popes and are the woods Catholic? There's nothing like a reasoned reply. And that is nothing like a reasoned reply. The first two paragraphs are speculation. The third is open for debate by all, but many seem to not hear, or deliberately ignore other scientist's views. Chosing to accept whatever the gov. tells them (which is usually unthinkable). And then you derailed.....
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steeleye20 Croydon 01 Nov 20 8.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Presumably you don't know anyone that has Long Covid. 5% of the population is over 3 million. In addition, had this been left to run there would have been many, many deaths. And as a result more people would have been hit by a high virus load, even the fittest generally don't cope well with that. Why do people on here think that the NHS and PHE, plus the WHO and every medical function in the world agree lock-downs are needed? Ah, because they are not nearly as clever as you. Do you also refuse to accept that climate change is man-made? Is the Earth really round? Do bears really sh*t on Popes and are the woods Catholic? Regards Maple. But 'long covid' is the latest designer label b*****s from the medical establishement. I have personal experience of a long viral illness and symptoms of acute fatigue anxiety depression lethargy are quite normal. In my case about 2 years. At the time I remember debates about whether 'post-viral syndrome' 'chronic fatigue syndrome' etc. were actual illnesses. Basically you are flattened by a virus and the body may take months or years to recover. We know about covid19 and what we must do, what we lack is a solution. Ok if you want to kick the can down the road but you are ruining lives as well as saving them. All the best.
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