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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 01 Nov 20 1.11pm |
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Flu has been eradicated somehow.
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Attachment: | Rudi Hedman Caterham 01 Nov 20 1.12pm |
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And counted as Covid with mentions of flu of pneumonia. At least they mention it I suppose.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 01 Nov 20 1.20pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Flu has been eradicated somehow. It’s a miracle! Let’s hope it doesn’t come back when Covid ends lol
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| Eden Eagle Kent 01 Nov 20 1.35pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Maybe this will help YOU learn something! It's ALWAYS been obvious that the financial impact will be devastating. It's ALWAYS been obvious that health and the economy are "extricably" linked. Recognising that means I, and most others, are far from "tone deaf" about the financial catastrophe we face as country and the impact it produces on people disproportionately. That is NOT the point. The point is that this is all about having to face making choices between approaches which are all bad. The decisions to be made are which are least bad, which are more likely to produce the least harm and from which a recovery can be made. This crisis needs effective, clear-sighted, level headed, management. I am very glad that you, and the others here who think like you, are not responsible for that management. Not only would many more of us die, ultimately the economy would take longer to recover. Get it now? Oh Wisbot - you are getting yourself a bit tangled up here. I have only used your words to demonstrate how tone deaf you are (not others) as you have previously demonstrated no empathy at all with the financial impact but you have rectified that position now so well done you👍 When you say that is “not the point” re the financial impact that is just more “deafness” as I would suggest for many people that is EXACTLY the point. All the very best..
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| Mapletree Croydon 01 Nov 20 2.34pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
And counted as Covid with mentions of flu of pneumonia. At least they mention it I suppose. You are on a mission aren't you. Here are some facts Table 1: Number of death occurrences where Influenza, Pneumonia or COVID-19 were the underlying cause of death by sex, January to August 2020, England and Wales I am sure you know that pneumonia needs a cause. I am also sure you know that many COVID deaths involve pneumonia. You will be aware that the illness tied to the new coronavirus was originally called novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia (NCIP). The World Health Organization renamed it COVID-19. You are becoming painful with your clutching at straws. You are also monopolising these boards with your daft conspiracy stuff. Edited by Mapletree (01 Nov 2020 3.51pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Nov 20 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Oh Wisbot - you are getting yourself a bit tangled up here. I have only used your words to demonstrate how tone deaf you are (not others) as you have previously demonstrated no empathy at all with the financial impact but you have rectified that position now so well done you👍 When you say that is “not the point” re the financial impact that is just more “deafness” as I would suggest for many people that is EXACTLY the point. All the very best.. You are being extremely disingenuous. And that's putting it politely! I am not the least bit "tangled up"! My position is very, very clear and totally consistent. As a country we have to make choices between alternative strategies, all of which are bad. Choosing one doesn't mean any lack of empathy for those affected by it. Quite the contrary in fact. Support has to be given to those who are impacted and that has been my position throughout. You cannot though manage this crisis without it impacting people and my view, and it seems of many others, including those actually taking the decisions, is that the impact of financial stress for some is nothing like as important as the loss of their lives for others. So long as we ensure that those affected are kept safe and well, housed, fed and clothed they will survive and can then use their skills and energy to rebuild their own lives and our economy. Accusing me of a lack of empathy is really ironic at best, and disgusting at worst, considering your own total lack of empathy for those who would lose their lives if the course of action you prefer was followed. My guess is you have never managed more than to get out of bed in the morning, and I think we can count ourselves lucky for that.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 01 Nov 20 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
You are on a mission aren't you. Here are some facts Table 1: Number of death occurrences where Influenza, Pneumonia or COVID-19 were the underlying cause of death by sex, January to August 2020, England and Wales1,2,3,4,5,6 I am sure you know that pneumonia needs a cause. I am also sure you know that many COVID deaths involve pneumonia. You will be aware that the illness tied to the new coronavirus was originally called novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia (NCIP). The World Health Organization renamed it COVID-19. You are becoming painful with your clutching at straws. You are also monopolising these boards with your daft conspiracy stuff. I would look at the table but I can’t decipher it. I take your points on board , only that flu and pneumonia are non existent. Barely any. Last night it was dismissed as ‘Covid being put down on death certificates malarkey.’ Well at least it’s acknowledged as being a blatant abuse of the situation by doctors, with many relatives of the dead complaining about it. Conspiracy stuff? Just exaggeration and manipulation of situation and public. Covid is real, just not how they’re depicting it and not everywhere. Lockdown all of the south? Er, no.
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. | Spiderman Horsham 01 Nov 20 3.03pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Do you mean restricting travel within the EU member states? So far as I know they haven't and it would seem impractical to try to do it completely. It would be like trying to stop us going to Wales or Scotland. Asking people to restrict travel and then relying on people to comply makes sense. Issuing a few fines and publically shaming public figures does too. They are though especially proud of the concept of freedom of movement as a bedrock principle. We should have had a total lockdown in March, ie all airports shut except for repatriation, to be receiving flights from China whilst we couldn’t visit family was totally unacceptable. Even now we are allowing foreign travellers in with absolutely no way of checking they are self- isolating. Please don’t say we have that ability because we don’t, no way of checking addresses before they leave the airport. Brits refusing to give details and EU nationals coming to stay in caravans are a daily occurrence
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 01 Nov 20 3.05pm |
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Very true. But freedom to travel or live wherever you fancy and all that.
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| Spiderman Horsham 01 Nov 20 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Very true. But freedom to travel or live wherever you fancy and all that. But airports should have been closed. Freedom of movement etc should have been put to one side in these extraordinary times. You can’t just stop people visiting children/parents but allow all and sundry to travel in
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BlueJay  UK 01 Nov 20 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Flu has been eradicated somehow. Here is a reality based analysis of your echo chamber image (attached), which you use to prop up the unfounded conspiracy theory that countless flu and pneumonia deaths are counted as covid. Quote
The post then claims there have been 394 flu deaths in England and Wales in 2019/20. This figure comes from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), and is based on deaths registered between January and August 2020 (not in 2019/20 as claimed) where influenza was found to be the underlying cause of death. There are various problems with comparing the two figures in this way to suggest that there has been a massive, suspicious drop in flu deaths this year. Firstly the “average” figure for flu deaths over recent years notably excludes data for 2018/19, when there was a noticeable drop in the number of flu deaths in England, from 22,087 the year before to 3,966. Including this figure would bring the average flu deaths in a given year below the 20,000 quoted and indicates that in some years there can just be fewer flu deaths. But more importantly the PHE and ONS figures show very different measures which cannot be compared. That’s because the PHE figures are calculated using an algorithm which estimates how many excess deaths there are associated with flu. Many of these are not recorded on death certificates, which is what the ONS figure of 394 flu deaths this year is based on. This means that the post’s assertion that there have been 20,000 fewer flu deaths this year than the average is incorrect. A fair comparison would use either the ONS or the PHE dataset and not mix them together. Both methods show flu deaths are not abnormally low this year. The PHE data shows that over the five years from 2014/15 to 2018/19, the number of deaths associated with flu in England has ranged from 3,966 to 28,330, averaging 15,360. By comparison there were 7,990 deaths associated with flu in 2019/20 to the start of March 2020. As the flu season runs until May, and this is the period covered by the statistics from other years, it is possible that the 2019/20 figures will be in line with the average. In any case they are not “20,000 fewer” as claimed. If we want to use the ONS figures, we know there were 394 flu deaths registered on death certificates between January and August this year in England and Wales. Official data shows this is considerably less than in 2019 (1,213 deaths) and 2018 (1,596 deaths), but it is higher than in 2014 (118 deaths) and 2015 (282 deaths). The propaganda you've posted was purposefully created to deceive as it uses an entirely different measures and datasets for this year than others (as well as omitting certain years). Ironically your higher PHE figures are an 'estimate' (I thought you didn't like those) whereas the other ONS figure is flu deaths listed on death certificates. If you actually use the same PHE data for this year as others the 2019-2020 flu season ending May does not stand out at all, and this flu season is only part way through. And if you use the ONS data for both, then years such as 2014 and 2015 had 'less' flu deaths than this year and so that also knocks the unfounded theory that countless flu deaths are being counted as covid deaths on the head too.
Quote
The Facebook post also alleges that there were “30,000+” deaths from pneumonia each year from 2014 until 2017. It then jumps to 2020, which it says had 13,619 deaths. Official data shows the number of deaths where pneumonia was the underlying cause has been consistently below 30,000 every year between 2014 and 2019 in England and Wales, ranging from 25,419 to 29,847. The ONS has said there were 13,619 deaths caused by pneumonia between January and August 2020. As 2020 is not yet over, we do not have final figures for pneumonia deaths this year. It is likely to increase significantly, especially as many are likely to occur in the winter. This means the Facebook post’s assertion that there are at least 17,000 fewer pneumonia deaths than the average this year is meaningless. " - [Link]
Edited by BlueJay (01 Nov 2020 3.44pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 01 Nov 20 3.47pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
But airports should have been closed. Freedom of movement etc should have been put to one side in these extraordinary times. You can’t just stop people visiting children/parents but allow all and sundry to travel in I agree. I was joking.
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