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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 22 9.58am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I sympathise with Ukrainian refugees but as I have previously predicted, the endless stream of refugees and migrants will be increasing decade by decade as war, lack of resources and climate change worsens. As an island nation, we have to protect ourselves from the inevitable consequences that the likes of Wisbech is in denial about. We will go the same way without a doubt. I somehow doubt whether replying is worth the effort as when this hobby horse is mounted its blinkers ensure it only ever looks one way. No consequences are ever inevitable in a changing world where the future remains unknown. Whilst we all recognise the problems caused by unplanned, illegal migration, we also accept that the UK honours its commitment to international law and conventions. We aren't Russia. There are no easy, or short term answers. If there were, they would have been found. Those that think we "just send them back" etc etc, are being simplistic. This requires an international response involving all the countries through which these people travel, tackling the people smuggling gangs at source, trying to both eliminate the security and economic motivations which drive people to do this, alongside establishing a legal way to manage those who have genuine reasons, in their own countries. That response is happening, but was never going to be easy to establish with so many competing elements. Brexit has made it much harder, as this is something which would be more attainable if we had remained a member of the EU. We are always going to be the destination of choice for many, simply because English is the only other language they have any knowledge of. I certainly don't "know" that the fall of Rome was largely down to migration! It's the first time I have heard such a theory! There was a mix of reasons. There was migration, but it was the way the migrants were treated that contributed to the downfall, and not the migration itself. Maybe that's the lesson!
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 18 Mar 22 11.15am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I somehow doubt whether replying is worth the effort as when this hobby horse is mounted its blinkers ensure it only ever looks one way. No consequences are ever inevitable in a changing world where the future remains unknown. Whilst we all recognise the problems caused by unplanned, illegal migration, we also accept that the UK honours its commitment to international law and conventions. We aren't Russia. There are no easy, or short term answers. If there were, they would have been found. Those that think we "just send them back" etc etc, are being simplistic. This requires an international response involving all the countries through which these people travel, tackling the people smuggling gangs at source, trying to both eliminate the security and economic motivations which drive people to do this, alongside establishing a legal way to manage those who have genuine reasons, in their own countries. That response is happening, but was never going to be easy to establish with so many competing elements. Brexit has made it much harder, as this is something which would be more attainable if we had remained a member of the EU. We are always going to be the destination of choice for many, simply because English is the only other language they have any knowledge of. I certainly don't "know" that the fall of Rome was largely down to migration! It's the first time I have heard such a theory! There was a mix of reasons. There was migration, but it was the way the migrants were treated that contributed to the downfall, and not the migration itself. Maybe that's the lesson! Western Rome fell cos all the migrants were let onto Roman Territory. When a Barbarian army tried to siege the defences, the Barbarians on the inside simply threw open the gates to their buddies. They should have been kept on the far side of the Danube & Rhine....as was always the policy of successful Caesars. Eastern Rome ( Byzantium) fell in 1453 cos Islam had undermined the whole shebang. Across all its territory, Islam held sway. Islam had no allegiance to the Capital - and seemed to have Sharia Courts running in parallel to Roman Law. Edited by PalazioVecchio (18 Mar 2022 11.30am)
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 23 Mar 22 4.21pm |
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400 migrants in 24 hours. Wisbech's brave new world.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Mar 22 4.34pm |
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And the main picture they give is the baby. No agenda there.
Red and Blue Army! |
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BlueJay  UK 23 Mar 22 4.36pm |
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Scary numbers
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| Spiderman Horsham 23 Mar 22 5.13pm |
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They have arriving in these numbers every day for weeks, nothing new. No political will from any party to tackle it. Not a Ukrainian in sight
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| Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 23 Mar 22 5.47pm |
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Of course there are no Ukranians....yet. These folk are the benefit seekers paying gangsters in France to get here. Mostly young men as Palazio pointed out some months ago. We are paying £4m per day to put them up in comfy hotels. This country simply cannot cope with this continuous influx of illegal immigrants. Our NHS struggles to look after the indigenous population without the additional burden of incomers. Whether you like it or not Wisbech, surely, something, somewhere is very wrong to allow this to happen. Australia has the right idea to turn them back, virtually none have entered there since 2013. And Australia is a big country with loads of space and the UK is minute in comparison and stuffed to the rafters already. It's no longer a crisis, it's more like a bloomin' emergency!
Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Mar 22 8.33pm |
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Of course, it isn't. I no more want illegal immigration than anyone else, and despise the people smugglers who profiteer out of misery. I just recognise that there are no quick or easy solutions. We need to work with our neighbours to cut off the sources of the problems. Unless, and until we do, this will get worse, not better. Anyone who boards a small boat to try to cross an unknown stretch of sea when they are thousands of miles from home, to try to get to an unknown country, where an uncertain future awaits them, has got to be pretty desperate. Surely showing some compassion for the desperate ought not be beyond any of us?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 23 Mar 22 8.41pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course, it isn't. I no more want illegal immigration than anyone else, and despise the people smugglers who profiteer out of misery. I just recognise that there are no quick or easy solutions. We need to work with our neighbours to cut off the sources of the problems. Unless, and until we do, this will get worse, not better. Anyone who boards a small boat to try to cross an unknown stretch of sea when they are thousands of miles from home, to try to get to an unknown country, where an uncertain future awaits them, has got to be pretty desperate. Surely showing some compassion for the desperate ought not be beyond any of us? Shut up. My concern is for this country. We can't afford this kind of charity for everyone who fancies a new life in Britain. Don't try and kid me that all these people are fleeing danger.
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| nead1 23 Mar 22 9.43pm |
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Its clearly beyond this poster and has always been from what I have seen/read. Maybe put it down to intemperate use of language to give him the benefit of any doubt especially as he is far from alone on this site.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Mar 22 9.48pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Shut up. My concern is for this country. We can't afford this kind of charity for everyone who fancies a new life in Britain. Don't try and kid me that all these people are fleeing danger. We aren't actually showing anyone any charity! We are meeting internationally agreed conventions. I can only imagine what the EU's response would be if we did not. We cannot patrol every inch of coastline. Nor can we legally just return people to their countries of origin, if they have a legitimate claim to refugee status. That needs to be established, and that takes time and resources. You might wish it otherwise, but we are a law-abiding country who accepts our responsibilities. We have no other choice but to work with others to solve this. We cannot do this on our own. We cannot just set up an offshore processing centre and then put people back on boats to whence they came. You won't like being told this, but Brexit has made solving this much harder. If people aren't refugees, then they certainly ought to be returned. Illegal economic migration cannot be accepted. The problem is, unhappily, despite your cynicism, it appears that most are. It's really easy to look at this and criticise. We can all do that. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Finding impractical solutions is also easy. It's much harder to find practical, workable solutions. So far, no-one has. Other than co-operation and attacking the gangs at source.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Spiderman Horsham 24 Mar 22 6.18am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We aren't actually showing anyone any charity! We are meeting internationally agreed conventions. I can only imagine what the EU's response would be if we did not. We cannot patrol every inch of coastline. Nor can we legally just return people to their countries of origin, if they have a legitimate claim to refugee status. That needs to be established, and that takes time and resources. You might wish it otherwise, but we are a law-abiding country who accepts our responsibilities. We have no other choice but to work with others to solve this. We cannot do this on our own. We cannot just set up an offshore processing centre and then put people back on boats to whence they came. You won't like being told this, but Brexit has made solving this much harder. If people aren't refugees, then they certainly ought to be returned. Illegal economic migration cannot be accepted. The problem is, unhappily, despite your cynicism, it appears that most are. It's really easy to look at this and criticise. We can all do that. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Finding impractical solutions is also easy. It's much harder to find practical, workable solutions. So far, no-one has. Other than co-operation and attacking the gangs at source. I do not want to get embroiled in this debate anymore. My parting comment, using my 30+ years of experience is regarding Wissie’s penultimate paragraph, the first sentence is correct, the second is totally wrong. The vast majority crossing the Channel are economic migrants but unfortunately arriving with no documentation makes it impossible to remove them.
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