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Eaglecoops CR3 31 Oct 20 12.58pm
Originally posted by Jimenez If the first lock down(supposedly)didn't work? What makes anyone think a second,third, fourth, fifth one will? It won’t which is why a lot, minus about 4 or 5 posters on here think it is the wrong way to go and not the wrong way because it might save a few lives, but the wrong way because of the lives that will be lost to other medical issues, to the mental issues caused and to the destruction of hundreds of businesses and thousands of livelihoods. This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war?
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Eaglecoops

CR3 31 Oct 20 12.58pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

If the first lock down(supposedly)didn't work? What makes anyone think a second,third, fourth, fifth one will?

It won’t which is why a lot, minus about 4 or 5 posters on here think it is the wrong way to go and not the wrong way because it might save a few lives, but the wrong way because of the lives that will be lost to other medical issues, to the mental issues caused and to the destruction of hundreds of businesses and thousands of livelihoods.

This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war?

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cryrst The garden of England 31 Oct 20 1.02pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops It won’t which is why a lot, minus about 4 or 5 posters on here think it is the wrong way to go and not the wrong way because it might save a few lives, but the wrong way because of the lives that will be lost to other medical issues, to the mental issues caused and to the destruction of hundreds of businesses and thousands of livelihoods. This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war? Women aged 18-40 are being admitted to hospital in higher numbers than during the first wave. Let's leave it as is because non of us have any of those in the family.
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cryrst

The garden of England 31 Oct 20 1.02pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war?

Women aged 18-40 are being admitted to hospital in higher numbers than during the first wave. Let's leave it as is because non of us have any of those in the family.

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BlueJay UK 31 Oct 20 1.02pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You clearly are a government bot. The estimate (scenario do they could dodge scrutiny) was wildly out, again, like spring, again, like this will be, again. Again and again and again. Again, you're not even understanding what you're looking at. They aren't 'wildly out' because they are not estimates of 'daily diagnosed cases'.. They are estimates of the number of infections in the country that day, which of course is entirely different since not everyone gets tested by a long stretch, many people are asymptomatic, and many are pre-symptomatic at a time where the virus numbers are very clear rising. Of course none of that is of any interest to you though, as you're perpetually desperate to rubbish any reality that doesn't fit your echo chamber outlook. Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.03pm)
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BlueJay

UK 31 Oct 20 1.02pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You clearly are a government bot. The estimate (scenario do they could dodge scrutiny) was wildly out, again, like spring, again, like this will be, again. Again and again and again.

Again, you're not even understanding what you're looking at. They aren't 'wildly out' because they are not estimates of 'daily diagnosed cases'.. They are estimates of the number of infections in the country that day, which of course is entirely different since not everyone gets tested by a long stretch, many people are asymptomatic, and many are pre-symptomatic at a time where the virus numbers are very clear rising. Of course none of that is of any interest to you though, as you're perpetually desperate to rubbish any reality that doesn't fit your echo chamber outlook.

Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.03pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.03pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops It won’t which is why a lot, minus about 4 or 5 posters on here think it is the wrong way to go and not the wrong way because it might save a few lives, but the wrong way because of the lives that will be lost to other medical issues, to the mental issues caused and to the destruction of hundreds of businesses and thousands of livelihoods. This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war? Well at least on this I agree but we got a taste of society recently not understanding this when they look at the Bengal famine in WWII and Churchill ‘literally killing millions’ etc. This is the trouble with too big a media and too much involvement by the public. At the start the media involvement fecked it to start with and it hasn’t changed. Actually the government got them on board. Scandalous manipulation of people with false and exaggerated numbers. Sorry, thought I was replying to Bluebot government and media nodder. Edited by Rudi Hedman (31 Oct 2020 1.07pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.03pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war?

Well at least on this I agree but we got a taste of society recently not understanding this when they look at the Bengal famine in WWII and Churchill ‘literally killing millions’ etc. This is the trouble with too big a media and too much involvement by the public. At the start the media involvement fecked it to start with and it hasn’t changed. Actually the government got them on board. Scandalous manipulation of people with false and exaggerated numbers.

Sorry, thought I was replying to Bluebot government and media nodder.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (31 Oct 2020 1.07pm)

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.05pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Again, you're not even understanding what you're looking at. They aren't 'wildly out' because they are not estimates of 'daily diagnosed cases'.. They are estimates of the number of infections in the country that day, which of course is entirely different since not everyone gets tested by a long stretch, many people are asymptomatic, and many are pre-symptomatic at a time where the virus numbers are very clear rising. Of course none of that is of any interest to you though, as you're perpetually desperate to rubbish any reality that doesn't fit your echo chamber outlook. Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.03pm) You’re absolutely unbelievable. If those numbers were true the deaths would be on a much larger scale, with or without lumping in other respiratory illnesses and flu. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.05pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.03pm)

You’re absolutely unbelievable. If those numbers were true the deaths would be on a much larger scale, with or without lumping in other respiratory illnesses and flu.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.09pm
Originally posted by cryrst Women aged 18-40 are being admitted to hospital in higher numbers than during the first wave. Let's leave it as is because non of us have any of those in the family. The demographics this time are apparently more random, and recover quickly, due to various reasons gone over before. It’s actually good news if you appreciate elderly aren’t getting it like before. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.09pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Women aged 18-40 are being admitted to hospital in higher numbers than during the first wave. Let's leave it as is because non of us have any of those in the family.

The demographics this time are apparently more random, and recover quickly, due to various reasons gone over before. It’s actually good news if you appreciate elderly aren’t getting it like before.

COYP

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BlueJay UK 31 Oct 20 1.14pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You’re absolutely unbelievable. If those numbers were true the deaths would be on a much larger scale, with or without lumping in other respiratory illnesses and flu. No, I'm not 'unbelievable' but you are disingenuous. You repeatedly misrepresented a chart you keep posting infering that the numbers are proven to be 'bulls***' due to the number of diagnosed cases. I am pointing out to you that these estimates are of the number of infections in the country and that is obviously not going to be the same as the number of officially diagnosed cases on a specific day for reasons I've just highlighted and more. Nor have I said which of the estimates I even think is most accurate. That's irrelevant to you misrepresenting what the chart conveys. Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.15pm)
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BlueJay

UK 31 Oct 20 1.14pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You’re absolutely unbelievable. If those numbers were true the deaths would be on a much larger scale, with or without lumping in other respiratory illnesses and flu.

No, I'm not 'unbelievable' but you are disingenuous. You repeatedly misrepresented a chart you keep posting infering that the numbers are proven to be 'bulls***' due to the number of diagnosed cases. I am pointing out to you that these estimates are of the number of infections in the country and that is obviously not going to be the same as the number of officially diagnosed cases on a specific day for reasons I've just highlighted and more.

Nor have I said which of the estimates I even think is most accurate. That's irrelevant to you misrepresenting what the chart conveys.

Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.15pm)

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BlueJay UK 31 Oct 20 1.17pm
Originally posted by Jimenez If the first lock down(supposedly)didn't work? What makes anyone think a second,third, fourth, fifth one will? It depends how you define 'didn't work'. It certainly brought down the numbers (contrary to what our resident 'expert' believed), but alas back up they go. So essentially you're right, that time and time ago we'd end up at the same place. That's why all governments are in a damned if they do, damned in they don't position. Stateside if Mr Trump loses the election it will effectively primarily be down to the virus and the perception of how he dealt with it. But then every scenario is s**ty compared to the status quo, so there is no winning strategy. Personally I'd tend to stick with regional lockdowns for very bad areas and 'hope' that a vaccine gets us out of this mess. A bit of a compromise to keep things ticking over. Of course a vaccine might not even happen (though I think its likely) but if it doesn't no matter what approach is taken, we can wave goodbye to 2021 being a particularly normal* year too in terms of anything crowd related.
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BlueJay

UK 31 Oct 20 1.17pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

If the first lock down(supposedly)didn't work? What makes anyone think a second,third, fourth, fifth one will?

It depends how you define 'didn't work'. It certainly brought down the numbers (contrary to what our resident 'expert' believed), but alas back up they go. So essentially you're right, that time and time ago we'd end up at the same place. That's why all governments are in a damned if they do, damned in they don't position. Stateside if Mr Trump loses the election it will effectively primarily be down to the virus and the perception of how he dealt with it. But then every scenario is s***ty compared to the status quo, so there is no winning strategy.

Personally I'd tend to stick with regional lockdowns for very bad areas and 'hope' that a vaccine gets us out of this mess. A bit of a compromise to keep things ticking over. Of course a vaccine might not even happen (though I think its likely) but if it doesn't no matter what approach is taken, we can wave goodbye to 2021 being a particularly normal year too in terms of anything crowd related.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.20pm
Originally posted by BlueJay No, I'm not 'unbelievable' but you are disingenuous. You repeatedly misrepresented a chart you keep posting infering that the numbers are proven to be 'bulls*' due to the number of diagnosed cases. I am pointing out to you that these estimates are of the number of infections in the country and that is obviously not going to be the same as the number of officially diagnosed cases on a specific day for reasons I've just highlighted and more. Nor have I said which of the estimates I even think is most accurate. That's irrelevant to you misrepresenting what the chart conveys. Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.15pm) I’m well aware of the difference in estimates ‘a possible scenario’ and diagnosed cases and I’m also telling you that the hospitalisations and deaths don’t stack up either. If their estimates are correct as you say with other figures further down the pipeline then we’ll all have had it in no time and be immune for 3+ months to permanently if they have the honesty still in them to add that T-cell immunity remains after the antibodies in the body’s serum goes, as is the case in all antibodies. COYP**
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.20pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Nor have I said which of the estimates I even think is most accurate. That's irrelevant to you misrepresenting what the chart conveys.

Edited by BlueJay (31 Oct 2020 1.15pm)

I’m well aware of the difference in estimates ‘a possible scenario’ and diagnosed cases and I’m also telling you that the hospitalisations and deaths don’t stack up either. If their estimates are correct as you say with other figures further down the pipeline then we’ll all have had it in no time and be immune for 3+ months to permanently if they have the honesty still in them to add that T-cell immunity remains after the antibodies in the body’s serum goes, as is the case in all antibodies.

COYP

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 31 Oct 20 1.21pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops It won’t which is why a lot, minus about 4 or 5 posters on here think it is the wrong way to go and not the wrong way because it might save a few lives, but the wrong way because of the lives that will be lost to other medical issues, to the mental issues caused and to the destruction of hundreds of businesses and thousands of livelihoods. This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war? Of course it worked! It brought the infection levels down to the point where, combined with better weather and the ability to live more safely outdoors, the brakes could be released. You have no idea what might have happened without it. You can only theorise. Trying to balance the other consequences against the potential loss of life is exactly what the government is doing. With no perfect answer, criticism is cheap and easy, from every viewpoint, as is hindsight. What our duty has to be is to support whatever decisions are taken, whatever cost that might bring to us personally. Only if we act collectively will we minimize the impact. This is not the time for selfishness or believing we know better. A new national lockdown is coming. It's being flagged up by the media to prepare us, so get prepared. It will work. It will cost too, but it will work. Just remember that all but a very few can manage with less, some of us with a lot less. We must protect the very vulnerable and then hunker down again. Be kind at home. Understand and forgive. Stay in touch with friends and family. Look out for your neighbours. And for those working in the NHS, like my own wife, give thanks for their fortitude and devotion to caring or us all. Economies recover. Dead people don't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 31 Oct 20 1.21pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

This is like being in a war and in a war there are casualties. Do we sacrifice a few for the many or do we just try and protect everyone and accept we are going to lose the war?

Of course it worked!

It brought the infection levels down to the point where, combined with better weather and the ability to live more safely outdoors, the brakes could be released.

You have no idea what might have happened without it. You can only theorise.

Trying to balance the other consequences against the potential loss of life is exactly what the government is doing. With no perfect answer, criticism is cheap and easy, from every viewpoint, as is hindsight.

What our duty has to be is to support whatever decisions are taken, whatever cost that might bring to us personally. Only if we act collectively will we minimize the impact. This is not the time for selfishness or believing we know better.

A new national lockdown is coming. It's being flagged up by the media to prepare us, so get prepared.

It will work. It will cost too, but it will work. Just remember that all but a very few can manage with less, some of us with a lot less. We must protect the very vulnerable and then hunker down again. Be kind at home. Understand and forgive. Stay in touch with friends and family. Look out for your neighbours. And for those working in the NHS, like my own wife, give thanks for their fortitude and devotion to caring or us all.

Economies recover. Dead people don't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.29pm
By work you mean delay/other deaths will happen now and in the future. What really annoys me is empty hospitals from July onwards and the same non treatment of cancer and heart patients and new symptoms. Just told ‘no treatment.’ COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Oct 20 1.29pm

By work you mean delay/other deaths will happen now and in the future.

What really annoys me is empty hospitals from July onwards and the same non treatment of cancer and heart patients and new symptoms. Just told ‘no treatment.’

COYP

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cryrst The garden of England 31 Oct 20 1.31pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course it worked! It brought the infection levels down to the point where, combined with better weather and the ability to live more safely outdoors, the brakes could be released. You have no idea what might have happened without it. You can only theorise. Trying to balance the other consequences against the potential loss of life is exactly what the government is doing. With no perfect answer, criticism is cheap and easy, from every viewpoint, as is hindsight. What our duty has to be is to support whatever decisions are taken, whatever cost that might bring to us personally. Only if we act collectively will we minimize the impact. This is not the time for selfishness or believing we know better. A new national lockdown is coming. It's being flagged up by the media to prepare us, so get prepared. It will work. It will cost too, but it will work. Just remember that all but a very few can manage with less, some of us with a lot less. We must protect the very vulnerable and then hunker down again. Be kind at home. Understand and forgive. Stay in touch with friends and family. Look out for your neighbours. And for those working in the NHS, like my own wife, give thanks for their fortitude and devotion to caring or us all. Economies recover. Dead people don't. Probably for once only Amen
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cryrst

The garden of England 31 Oct 20 1.31pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it worked!

It brought the infection levels down to the point where, combined with better weather and the ability to live more safely outdoors, the brakes could be released.

You have no idea what might have happened without it. You can only theorise.

A new national lockdown is coming. It's being flagged up by the media to prepare us, so get prepared.

Economies recover. Dead people don't.

Probably for once only
Amen

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