For the first time reborn we agree on something political!!

When I see him I feel the same as you!

I don't know whether any of you have seen the Guardian article regarding a combined effort by football hooligans to unite in attacks against Muslims?

I have got a sneaking suspicion that some journalist from the Guardian may have been looking at our beloved HOL website. The reason I say this is that under this topic there is a link to a discussion on the Arsenal site. This link is to do with a march that is being planned to celebrate being British and to try and stop some of the more extreme Muslim speakers.

Now I do not know whether this is a right wing march, or just people trying to make a point that the British aren't prepared to stand quietly by whilst certain Muslims (not all by any means) talk about things that are anti-British.

I honestly do not know, but being a suspicious sort of person I would guess that the Guardian have seen this and automatically assumed that it is a right wing gathering with Palace supporters involved along with Arsenal and others. I suspect you will find this link on the other clubs sites as well.

Once again if you speak up for your country you are automatically branded rascist by certain papers, but if you want to be anti-British and wish to speak against the British way of life you are allowed to do it...very strange!!!

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

I'd very much like to think this would be a British march - i.e. ALL britons, regardless of race colour or creed, united against the extremists. Maybe I'm being naive, but I hope not.

Right. I have been following this sporadically from afar, and it's all rather descended into handbags at five paces.

First up, all of us have emotions, and conveying them on a message board is not always the most accurate representation of our anger.

It seems to me that, in particular, reborn, Petealiator and halfmanhalfslug are angry. No s*** sherlock, you say. But their anger rather denudes their points, to the extent they become locked in an abusive battle with each other. Their anger, it appears to me, is originally driven by the same forces. Anger at what happened last thursday. Anger at the death and mindless destruction. Utterly understandable. However, we have seen that anger overwhelm their points to such a degree that they become indiscernable from the perspective they are trying to represent.

When it comes to the crunch of their viewpoints, their stuff about the whole concept of 'Britishness', 'race' and 'culture' come to the fore.

Ignorance still rules in these cases if you ask me. Integration is clearly necessary - from both positions. However, the immigration has been linked to race as a perception of difference by many of you - see Cucking's reference to 'Oldhamabad'.

The perception is a touching stone for racism. This is simply because if you judge someone by the generalisation of 'immigrant' as result of a different complexion, you are judging them on the colour of their skin. That basis is one from which racism stems - the whole process of generalisation of individuals is wrong, whichever way it manifests itself.

The idea that people with different complexions represent an 'alien culture' as opined by Penge Eagle, is a preposterous idea. It is one step further than the generalisation above and one step closer to condemnation. What is this 'alienness' which you warble on about?

What aspects of our 'cultures' are incompatible?

Hence the need for relative definitions of things such as 'race' and 'culture', which Petealiator got all huffy about. The first I've argued is a misnomer anyway, and the second is subject to so many interpretations it borders on the meaningless. Defining culture is like defining art, it is in the eye of the beholder, the one who feels a sense of belonging on the basis of certain factors which they feel are central to them.

Now, one thing we all have in common is Crystal Palace, so let's remember that.

I've run out of steam.

But if everybody went around judging individuals for who they are rather than some ridiculous idea of what group they are perceived to represent, then the world would be in a much healthier state.

I believe we are all global citizens first, national identies after.

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

In reply to NickinOX. cannot be bothered with Petealiator & Reborn do not want the threats of violence why the mods allow I do not know probably the same clique.

Never been a great fan of Galloway a bit too left for me and he does have a massive ego but since his performance in the US Senate, he has gone up in my estimation. My favourite quote being "I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is that Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns.”

In my opinion, George Galloway is right. Of course, Iraq is a factor in the bombings. It is no coincidence that the UK and Spain the two biggest supporters of the war in the EU have been targeted.

Although the election vote in Bethnal Green was close, he took a safe Labour seat. He polled 15,801 votes, giving him a majority of 823 over King, overturning her previous majority of 10,000. You originally posted that “He also ran an incredibly racist campaign, which included multiple death threats and attacks on opponents.” I think you will find that is was Galloway that received the death threats and was not the one giving them out. He received the death threats from Islamic extremists! He won the election in which there was accusations on both sides on the back of the large number of Muslim voters in the constituency voting against the war in Iraq.

You state that “The Palestinians receive millions of US dollars and also European money”. Israel is the world's largest recipient of American aid, receiving an estimated $3bn annually. Israel is asking Washington for $2.2bn in additional aid to help fund its withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and four small West Bank settlements. The US has pledged $350m to the Palestinians, some of which is to be spent on housing and infrastructure in the Gaza Strip.

The big question is what is the main motivator for these extremists who carry out these despicable attacks. Could it be US foreign policy (and those who follow it) who to them are seem to be anti Islamic?

I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

- Face it Galloway is innocent of the charges laid before him by the US Senate Committee. Why would he know if his “Iraqi business friends” had benefited from the oil for food programme?

- The war in Iraq increased the likelihood of UK being attacked.

- Massive swing in the vote form a very safe Labour seat to the anti war party. The death threats where handed out by an extremist Islamic group opposed to democratic process and as such all candidates got them.

- You are wrong re aid. Israel is the largest recipient and most of the aid is military.
Check these websites
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- So what do you think is their main motivation?

Edited by Oliver (15 Jul 2005 5:09pm)

I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.